PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)
- Thread starter lilzz
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Re: South Sea Fleet will be the strongest in PLAN?
that's not going to happen, there is no such article and they don't even have 1 full regiment of J-11B let alone 2.
that's not going to happen, there is no such article and they don't even have 1 full regiment of J-11B let alone 2.
New base for the Type 094 subs?
Chinese build secret nuclear submarine base
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
Last Updated: 3:19AM BST 02/05/2008
China has secretly built a major underground nuclear submarine base that could threaten Asian countries and challenge American power in the region, it can be disclosed.
Satellite imagery, passed to The Daily Telegraph, shows that a substantial harbour has been built which could house a score of nuclear ballistic missile submarines and a host of aircraft carriers.
In what will be a significant challenge to US Navy dominance and to countries ringing the South China Sea, one photograph shows China’s latest 094 nuclear submarine at the base just a few hundred miles from its neighbours.
Other images show numerous warships moored to long jettys and a network of underground tunnels at the Sanya base on the southern tip of Hainan island.
Of even greater concern to the Pentagon are massive tunnel entrances, estimated to be 60ft high, built into hillsides around the base. Sources fear they could lead to caverns capable of hiding up to 20 nuclear submarines from spy satellites.
The US Department of Defence has estimated that China will have five 094 nuclear submarines operational by 2010 with each capable of carrying 12 JL-2 nuclear missiles.
The images were obtained by Janes Intelligence Review after the periodical was given access to imagery from the commercial satellite company DigitalGlobe.
Analysts for the respected military magazine suggest that the base could be used for "expeditionary as well as defensive operations" and would allow the submarines to "break out to launch locations closer to the US".
It would now be "difficult to ignore" that China was building a major naval base where it could house its nuclear forces and increase it "strategic capability considerably further afield".
The development so close to the sea lanes vital to Asian economies "can only cause concern far beyond these straits".
Military analysts believe that China’s substantial build up of its forces is gaining pace put has remained hidden from the world in the build-up to the Olympics.
China has diverted much of its resources from the huge Peoples Liberation Army to the navy, air force and missile development.
An old Russian aircraft carrier, bought by Beijing for "leisure activities" has been picked over by naval architects who hope to "reverse engineer" the ship.
Within the next five to 10 years the Peoples Liberation Navy is expected to build up to six carriers which will also coincide with the Royal Navy’s construction of two major carriers.
The location of the base off Hainan will also give the submarines access to very deep water exceeding 5,000 metres within a few miles, making them even harder to detect.
Britain’s Trident submarines have to remain on the surface when they leave Faslane in north east Scotland and cannot dive to depth until outside the Irish Sea.
While it has been known that China might be developing an underground base at Sanya, the pictures provide the first proof of the base’s existence and the rapid progress made.
Two 950 metre piers and three smaller ones would be enough to accommodate two carrier strike groups or amphibious assault ships.
Christian Le Miere, editor for Jane's Intelligence Review, said the complex underlined Beijing’s plan “to assert tighter control over this region".
"This is a challenge to any hegemonic power, particularly the US which still remains dominant in the region."
So far China has offered no public explanation for its building at Sanya.
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
Well, it's obviously not so secret because there it is, on sat images for everyone to see. And it has been there, and reported on for years. As regards the newer additions at that base, any look at a sat image during its construction by US or other sat coverage would have shown it. So I do not believe you can really call it secret.
As to the threat, well the larger threat to nations in the area is the 094 itself. It is no secret that the PLAN has built one or two of them at this point, and will probably build more. Their designation as SSBN clearly indicates that they are ballistic missile submarines, able to threaten far more than three local countries in the region. They have to be housed somewhere and so it is safe to assume that if the PLAN would build these submarines, they would also build or modify a base to house them.
Now, there is no doubt that there is a large buildup and modernization going on with the PLAN. They have the funds and they are building a lot of new designs that seem very capable and very much improved over earlier years in the early to mid 1990s. They have made unbelievable progress in the last 10 years. It is also clear that that buildup is meant to counter potential adversaries, the chief of which must be the US Navy. They are also building up a force capable of defending what they view s their national interests, both close to the mainland, and, IMHO, out into the blue water.
But you also must compare this with the regional buildup that is going on. While it is true that the US has reduced its overall numbers in the overall US Navy at the same time China has been building up...it is also true that the US has moved more naval assetts into the Western Pacific. So an overall let down in US Naval strength world-wide is also producing a regional buildup in US forces in the Western Pacific to counter the PLAN.
In addition, and at least as meaningful, is the fact that the regional powers...South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and others, including Australia, are in the middle of a significant buildup themselves. There is a fairly large naval arms race going on in the Western Pacific and overall, those nations likely to oppose China are building up larger numbers altogether than China is. That's the truth.
The PLAN SSBNs send a regional strategic message, because that is one very critical platform that China is building that none of the other regional powers, outside the US of course, is building.
I have been tracking this for some years.
Well, it's obviously not so secret because there it is, on sat images for everyone to see. And it has been there, and reported on for years. As regards the newer additions at that base, any look at a sat image during its construction by US or other sat coverage would have shown it. So I do not believe you can really call it secret.
As to the threat, well the larger threat to nations in the area is the 094 itself. It is no secret that the PLAN has built one or two of them at this point, and will probably build more. Their designation as SSBN clearly indicates that they are ballistic missile submarines, able to threaten far more than three local countries in the region. They have to be housed somewhere and so it is safe to assume that if the PLAN would build these submarines, they would also build or modify a base to house them.
Now, there is no doubt that there is a large buildup and modernization going on with the PLAN. They have the funds and they are building a lot of new designs that seem very capable and very much improved over earlier years in the early to mid 1990s. They have made unbelievable progress in the last 10 years. It is also clear that that buildup is meant to counter potential adversaries, the chief of which must be the US Navy. They are also building up a force capable of defending what they view s their national interests, both close to the mainland, and, IMHO, out into the blue water.
But you also must compare this with the regional buildup that is going on. While it is true that the US has reduced its overall numbers in the overall US Navy at the same time China has been building up...it is also true that the US has moved more naval assetts into the Western Pacific. So an overall let down in US Naval strength world-wide is also producing a regional buildup in US forces in the Western Pacific to counter the PLAN.
In addition, and at least as meaningful, is the fact that the regional powers...South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and others, including Australia, are in the middle of a significant buildup themselves. There is a fairly large naval arms race going on in the Western Pacific and overall, those nations likely to oppose China are building up larger numbers altogether than China is. That's the truth.
The PLAN SSBNs send a regional strategic message, because that is one very critical platform that China is building that none of the other regional powers, outside the US of course, is building.
I have been tracking this for some years.
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Skywatcher
Captain
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
I've always thought that the South Korean naval build up was primarily directed at Japan (after all, the KDX-III are overkill for whatever China can field at the moment)
I've always thought that the South Korean naval build up was primarily directed at Japan (after all, the KDX-III are overkill for whatever China can field at the moment)
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
I don't see KDX-III as "overkill" against PLAN. It is true that South Korean Navy has much better equipments in general than PLAN, but some of PLAN's newer ships and submarines should able to counter Korea's KDX-III, afterall there are only one KDX-III in Korean navy's inventory so far, and Korea's navy is considerably smaller than Japan and PRC's. Unless Korea come up with something close to Kirov battlecruiser, I don't see PLAN's ships at overwhelmingly odd against Korean fleet.
I don't see KDX-III as "overkill" against PLAN. It is true that South Korean Navy has much better equipments in general than PLAN, but some of PLAN's newer ships and submarines should able to counter Korea's KDX-III, afterall there are only one KDX-III in Korean navy's inventory so far, and Korea's navy is considerably smaller than Japan and PRC's. Unless Korea come up with something close to Kirov battlecruiser, I don't see PLAN's ships at overwhelmingly odd against Korean fleet.
Mr T
Senior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
I think he was making a ship-to-ship comparison. Obviously one cruiser cannot take on an entire navy of any real quality.
Skywatcher, in answer to your question I doubt South Korea is focusing on just one neighbour. Japan is a concern, North Korea is a concern (not in terms of naval power, but still generally), China is a concern, etc. Given China's rise in power it cannot be ignored.
And despite the slightly mental ranting of former President Roh I don't think South Korea is actually that troubled by Japan.
I think he was making a ship-to-ship comparison. Obviously one cruiser cannot take on an entire navy of any real quality.
Skywatcher, in answer to your question I doubt South Korea is focusing on just one neighbour. Japan is a concern, North Korea is a concern (not in terms of naval power, but still generally), China is a concern, etc. Given China's rise in power it cannot be ignored.
And despite the slightly mental ranting of former President Roh I don't think South Korea is actually that troubled by Japan.
Londo Molari
Junior Member
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
Ive read like 7 articles about this online... this base was already public knowledge in 2002, so why is it suddenly being spammed in the media again? Oh, its the first time they got high-quality pictures... yes I'm sure thats it.
The articles that came out today often contained claims like "China planning to field 6 carriers in next 5-10 years." The anti-China fear mongering is getting absurd...
P.S. omg look at that picture.... I had no idea the destroyers were that much bigger than the frigates!
Ive read like 7 articles about this online... this base was already public knowledge in 2002, so why is it suddenly being spammed in the media again? Oh, its the first time they got high-quality pictures... yes I'm sure thats it.
The articles that came out today often contained claims like "China planning to field 6 carriers in next 5-10 years." The anti-China fear mongering is getting absurd...
P.S. omg look at that picture.... I had no idea the destroyers were that much bigger than the frigates!
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Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
it was just annoying reading through junk like "secret base". The naval base has been there for a long time. So, they put subs in there and need to build a base for it and it suddenly becomes a "secret new sub base"?
it was just annoying reading through junk like "secret base". The naval base has been there for a long time. So, they put subs in there and need to build a base for it and it suddenly becomes a "secret new sub base"?
Re: New base for the Type 094 subs?
Londo Molari wrote :
Quite agreed with you and tphuang; this is just plain ridiculuous. And who came up this figure for China building carriers over the next five to ten years? I've been dropping MSM sources like hot potatoes over the last few months, and only refer to them casually now. Just so much rubbish.
Londo Molari wrote :
Quite agreed with you and tphuang; this is just plain ridiculuous. And who came up this figure for China building carriers over the next five to ten years? I've been dropping MSM sources like hot potatoes over the last few months, and only refer to them casually now. Just so much rubbish.