PLAN overseas deployment and excercises a list
- Thread starter asif iqbal
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
Since when was it up to the US what ships the PLAN sends?
Obviously sending a spy ship would not go down well, but I cannot possibly see how the US could reasonably veto the PLAN's selection so long as its normal fleet ships.
Blackstone
Brigadier
To be part of the US RIMPAC, PLAN is limited to what US allows. Of course, China could send all sorts of uninvited ships into US EEZ waters, because it has right to do so under Freedom of Navigation portion of international laws.
I agree with that a spy ship is not welcomed, but if other ships are also subjected to veto, China may choose sending nothing at all? I don't remember reading China bagging to join RIMPAC, after all, US invited China first.
Anyways, I feel that your original question a bit strange. This is a two-way business, there must be an invitation and an acceptance, both sides must feel beneficial and comfortable, meaning nobody feels being threatened, dominated or belittled. I don't think "allow" is the right word, it sounds very dominating to me and surely to the ears of PLAN.
Blackstone
Brigadier
Why do you feel my original question of what US would allow PLAN to send strange? It's a logical extension of RIMPAC14, where China was limited on programs it could participate; which dictates what ships could/could not be brought.
ok, since you ask I will elaborate. When I mentioned your original question I was talking about the word "allow". Not really about what types of ships China are sending that are "agreed" by both sides. I think this is also the point from playwolf.
The word "allow" does not make anything different in the fact (about ship types), but in diplomatic terms, the difference is huge. And the whole thing started from diplomacy and primarily serves as diplomacy, right? If you used "both sides agree", I would not have felt anything strange.
Let me explain like this.
1. Both sides felt a need to get closer cooperation and understanding.
2. Behind closed doors (diplomacy always start like this), U.S. expressed her intension of inviting China. China expressed her interest. U.S. stated her expected China's role in the exercise. China replied with her interested role. Both agreed. The types of ships from China would be decided accordingly.
3. U.S. made official invitation.
4. China accepted the invitation.
5. We heard it.
In step 2, if either side disliked the other side's proposal, nothing would have happened. From China's perspective, if she felt dominated (limited role not meeting her expectation, second class treatment in the same role, or diplomatically inappropriate treament etc.), China would have rejected the invitation. So, I DON'T see how this "allow" could have ever happened.
Not being picky on wording, but in a cooperation mutually beneficial to both sides, there is no place for "one side allow another side", otherwise, it won't work.
antiterror13
Brigadier
its a bit blunt and disrespectful (and somewhat offensive), you should tune down your tone a bit toward China (including your other posts toward China). You may not like China and that's totally fine ... but being offensive toward China and other countries is not allowed in this highly respected forum here .... you should know that
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Guys, RIMPAC is a long standing US Naval operations where it inviters all sorts of countries to attend.
It is a HUGE exercise.
Nations attend at the invite and allowance of the US. There is nothing untoward, nothing disrespectful, and nothing in bad tone to indicate and note this.
In fact, it is considered quite an honor to be invited.
Of course the US will be involved in indicating what types of vessels are invited. I am sure that the PLAN and other nations will suggest what vessels they would like to send based on what exercises they are invited to be a part of. Normally the US would not "veto" or disallow vessels, but based on the overall exercises and the overall numbers of ships and sailors coming to Hawaii or other places, they very well could limit them.
In addition, last year when the PLAN was invited for the first time, they sent along an intelligence gathering vessel that shadowed the exercise area and which was seen by the US and other US allies to be somewhat of a negative on the PLAN's overall attendance.
Clearly in international waters, there is nothing against this as long as they remained outside of the exclusion zones (which they did). But it was felt by many parties to be somewhat disrespectful of the overall exercises and somewhat obtuse to the general feeling and friendliness that the exercises are meant to engender.
We will see what the PLAN sends this year, and what the US allows them to send based on all of the above.
I am sure that if the PLAN requested that the carrier be sent for example, depending on the exercises they would participate in, and the overall numbers of personnel, the US may or may not accept such a request.
Of course, we will probably never know if requests were made and turned down...we will only hear of what is agreed upon, and that is probably as it should be.
Of course we here on SD would love to see the Liaoning attend...but such an inclusion would depend on those other factors I mentioned.
It is a HUGE exercise.
Nations attend at the invite and allowance of the US. There is nothing untoward, nothing disrespectful, and nothing in bad tone to indicate and note this.
In fact, it is considered quite an honor to be invited.
Of course the US will be involved in indicating what types of vessels are invited. I am sure that the PLAN and other nations will suggest what vessels they would like to send based on what exercises they are invited to be a part of. Normally the US would not "veto" or disallow vessels, but based on the overall exercises and the overall numbers of ships and sailors coming to Hawaii or other places, they very well could limit them.
In addition, last year when the PLAN was invited for the first time, they sent along an intelligence gathering vessel that shadowed the exercise area and which was seen by the US and other US allies to be somewhat of a negative on the PLAN's overall attendance.
Clearly in international waters, there is nothing against this as long as they remained outside of the exclusion zones (which they did). But it was felt by many parties to be somewhat disrespectful of the overall exercises and somewhat obtuse to the general feeling and friendliness that the exercises are meant to engender.
We will see what the PLAN sends this year, and what the US allows them to send based on all of the above.
I am sure that if the PLAN requested that the carrier be sent for example, depending on the exercises they would participate in, and the overall numbers of personnel, the US may or may not accept such a request.
Of course, we will probably never know if requests were made and turned down...we will only hear of what is agreed upon, and that is probably as it should be.
Of course we here on SD would love to see the Liaoning attend...but such an inclusion would depend on those other factors I mentioned.
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I don't think antiterror or anyone else is necessarily dismissing RIMPAC as an exercise, nor are they saying that nations would not seek to send ships which will cause the least friction... but let's get real here, Blackstone's phrasing of the statement could quite easily be interpreted in a negative way at best, or deliberately phrased to incite a response at worst.
Like taxiya said in 286, word choice is important.
Bltizo, I am "getting real."
The fact is, his statement, short of, in your own words, "could quite easily be interpreted," is not negative in itself. That is for someone to decide on their own with how they choose to interpret it.
In the context of a US exercise, and an invitation to attend that exercise, the US allowing vessels of whatever types is what is "real." Of course the US decides what to allow and what not to allow. And that in itself is not negative in the least.
Blackstone asking what the US will allow is perfectly in keeping with this and should not be taken as some kind of attack. It simply is not.
I will give the benefit of a doubt in such situations.
If Blackstone wants to explain himself...that is up to him. But given the simple context that the US seems to be inviting the PLAN to attend RIMPAC again (which I welcome), a question wondering what ships the PLAN will send and what the US will allow is perfectly in order.
Just as it would be regarding what the PLAN and Russia would allow if the US were invited to attend a Joint Sino-Russian exercise.
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