PLAN close in weapon

franco-russe said:

Yes, Hollandse Signaalapparaten (HSA) was acquired by the then Thomson-CSF, now Thales, in 1990. It is not difficult to demonstrate the close ties between Thales and Chinese defense industry.

The EU arms embargo is pure fiction. Look for instance at the hundreds of Dauphin helicopters, locally known as Z-9, that fly in the Chinese armed services.

Click to expand...

Thanks the info, but it is more proper to say "France having its own will" rather than "The EU arms embargo is pure fiction" I guess.

I do emphasis when China willing to purchase some MP5 SMGs at early 90s' and has been turned down.

Well, Chinese submarine diesels are by German MTU, the Germans also provided the tank engine designs for ZTZ-96 and -99, I think, and Rolls-Royce engines are in JH-7A, while older Chinese tanks have British gun designs. I am sure you could also find some Italian stuff. But obviously France has the oldest and closest ties with the Chinese defence-industrial complex.

Yo..dude..as you mention early 90. How long ago? Almost 20 years.

As mention, you do not buy all from one source. Example for a warship, you can get the SEMT Pielstick (now MAN Diesel SA) 16 PA6V-280 STC diesel engines, for the their warship not the whole ship itself. Same for the CIW. Some parts could be on open market that have other application usage.

Red___Sword said:

A sidenote is that, only stupid enough pirates would go close enough to CIW range...

Thing is, many occasions pirates going after their "prey" and turns out to be some big-gun warship (despite the nationality of the warship, in a matter of speaking). It dose make sense the replenishment ship should armed more guns. (and the SEA-RAM style CIWs didn't fit this job well... with regards to above "who's better?" heated debates.)

Click to expand...

The pirates may not know what a CIWS is, and they may not be able to see the CIWS from their little boats that are running around at high speed. Also, don't expect the pirates to know how to recognise warships. I won't be surprised if they think all ships look the same.

Spartan95 said:

The pirates may not know what a CIWS is, and they may not be able to see the CIWS from their little boats that are running around at high speed. Also, don't expect the pirates to know how to recognise warships. I won't be surprised if they think all ships look the same.

Click to expand...

c'mon now... while I can see a pirate not being able to differentiate between a burke or a kongo class, or a 052 and 054 I'm pretty sure they know to stay away from ships painted all sea gray with a big gun on their foredeck and maybe a helicopter or two on their stern deck.. cargo ships with thousdands of giant bright orange, green and yellow containers with giant MAERSK or HAPAG LYOYD on their sides or a 200,00 tons super tanker is about as different as a warship can get.

kwaigonegin said:

c'mon now... while I can see a pirate not being able to differentiate between a burke or a kongo class, or a 052 and 054 I'm pretty sure they know to stay away from ships painted all sea gray with a big gun on their foredeck and maybe a helicopter or two on their stern deck.. cargo ships with thousdands of giant bright orange, green and yellow containers with giant MAERSK or HAPAG LYOYD on their sides or a 200,00 tons super tanker is about as different as a warship can get.

Click to expand...

Never underestimate the scope of human stupidity.

There have been many past cases were pirates have attacked naval warships on patrol.







To be fair to the pirates, some of these incidents happened at night, and they probably didn't realize what they were attacking, while OTOH, naval replenishment ships can look like civilian ships, as the picture in my 3rd link demonstrates.

Well if you are a somali bloke growing up in a village some of them may never have seen a warship before.

So you won't fear what you don't know.

Infact they probably feels more threatened with WWII type ships will all guns bared rather than todays ship with their semi recessed armament. And it's not hard to miss the .50 cal machine guns on a support ship from a distance.

I mean a guy who probably didn't even went through primary school and you are expecting them to differentiate normal merchant ship from this:



And how close would they have to get before they see the defensive arms on that ship amid all the other clutters?

The way these pirates think is simple: Ships = money.

no_name said:

Well if you are a somali bloke growing up in a village some of them may never have seen a warship before.

So you won't fear what you don't know.

Infact they probably feels more threatened with WWII type ships will all guns bared rather than todays ship with their semi recessed armament. And it's not hard to miss the .50 cal machine guns on a support ship from a distance.

I mean a guy who probably didn't even went through primary school and you are expecting them to differentiate normal merchant ship from this:

And how close would they have to get before they see the defensive arms on that ship amid all the other clutters?

The way these pirates think is simple: Ships = money.

Click to expand...

I can see a pirate confusing between a military supply/aux ship and a tanker but I was thinking more along the lines of corvettes, frigates and destroyers. Surely even the dumbest of pirates can tell the difference between an oil tanker and say 054.

kwaigonegin said:

I can see a pirate confusing between a military supply/aux ship and a tanker but I was thinking more along the lines of corvettes, frigates and destroyers. Surely even the dumbest of pirates can tell the difference between an oil tanker and say 054.

Click to expand...

With all due respect (which I don't even bother to "defend" the pirates) - one simply CAN NOT have any idea of anything he never see before.

We the digital age guys enjoys the HD video or picture of various class and types of warship from every angle, having idea of how something exactly looks like - they, being only to seeing the AK47 as most sophisticated machine they can "feel", is easy for them to have totally no idea "what a turrent of a warship is supposed be looking like", or "which part of the ship is supposed to being looking out for 'different configuration' that shows this ship is a military one"...

Not to mention until the UN has made a move only recently, to enforce multi-nation naval patrol - the day-to-day living environment actually do not provide THAT MUCH chances for any poor guys like Somali "fisherman" to actually peek modern military ships.

Example: without cheating, kwaigonegin, how many independent sealable compartment dose the International Space Station have, as of today?

Or an easy one:would you please describe the distinctive appearance differences, between the retired Russian Space Station and the current running International Space Station

You see what I mean here?

But along with those "green" pirates, you have a few seasoned ones that have seen ships!