PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

S

Scratch

Captain
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
... Trying to fit too many roles onto a small ship will result in the ship becoming larger and more unwieldy in use. ...
Click to expand...

Those "carriers" were originally built as container ships, and those ships are not small at all nowadays. And, if I rememebr correct, it was clear from the beginning that these ships would be converted later. So they may not be the best solution one wishes to get, but having many ships that can operate modern aircraft far away from home is better than having non at all. Especially if you are willing and able to withstand attrition.
 
S

Scratch

Captain
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
... Trying to fit too many roles onto a small ship will result in the ship becoming larger and more unwieldy in use. ...
Click to expand...

Those "carriers" were originally built as container ships, and those ships are not small at all nowadays. And, if I rememebr correct, it was clear from the beginning that these ships would be converted later. So they may not be the best solution one wishes to get, but having many ships that can operate modern aircraft far away from home is better than having non at all. Especially if you are willing and able to withstand attrition.
 
S

Scratch

Captain
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
... Trying to fit too many roles onto a small ship will result in the ship becoming larger and more unwieldy in use. ...
Click to expand...

Those "carriers" were originally built as container ships, and those ships are not small at all nowadays. And, if I rememebr correct, it was clear from the beginning that these ships would be converted later. So they may not be the best solution one wishes to get, but having many ships that can operate modern aircraft far away from home is better than having non at all. Especially if you are willing and able to withstand attrition.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
A CVE is not meant for duty in a heavy combat environment; the concept is designed for lighter combat duties to free up the larger fleet carriers for more important tasks. Such duties of a CVE is convoy escort duty, ASW, etc. .
Click to expand...
Well, the fact is in several situations in World War II the small carriers were involved in very heavy combat...both in the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Battle off Samar in the Philippines comes to mind, as you indicate

If you send them to war, even as escorts, then they are likely to face combat and from there it will get as heavy as the enemy can amange.

These vessels are not just meant to be escort carriers as reading the book will reveal. At 50,000 tons they are full function carriers, just smaller and more quickly produced and meant to augment and supplment the much larger carriers.

As to the turbulence, those islands were all located amidships or near thereto. This island is located at the aft section of the ship and tests have not been run in that position, though the results may well be the same or even worse. OTOH, if you look at the location of the new CV-21 (CVN-78) island which is further aft on the new design, and look at its location relative to the landing area...it is not too far off in relation to this design relative to where the plnes would land, so it may not be aa consideration.

But, to emphatically reiterate to you...these vessels are entirely fictional, created for a fictional story. Posters on the forum have asked me to flesh out what was presented there, and so I have done so...I am not submitting this to the USN or the PLAN or anyone else for serious consideration.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
A CVE is not meant for duty in a heavy combat environment; the concept is designed for lighter combat duties to free up the larger fleet carriers for more important tasks. Such duties of a CVE is convoy escort duty, ASW, etc. .
Click to expand...
Well, the fact is in several situations in World War II the small carriers were involved in very heavy combat...both in the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Battle off Samar in the Philippines comes to mind, as you indicate

If you send them to war, even as escorts, then they are likely to face combat and from there it will get as heavy as the enemy can amange.

These vessels are not just meant to be escort carriers as reading the book will reveal. At 50,000 tons they are full function carriers, just smaller and more quickly produced and meant to augment and supplment the much larger carriers.

As to the turbulence, those islands were all located amidships or near thereto. This island is located at the aft section of the ship and tests have not been run in that position, though the results may well be the same or even worse. OTOH, if you look at the location of the new CV-21 (CVN-78) island which is further aft on the new design, and look at its location relative to the landing area...it is not too far off in relation to this design relative to where the plnes would land, so it may not be aa consideration.

But, to emphatically reiterate to you...these vessels are entirely fictional, created for a fictional story. Posters on the forum have asked me to flesh out what was presented there, and so I have done so...I am not submitting this to the USN or the PLAN or anyone else for serious consideration.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
A CVE is not meant for duty in a heavy combat environment; the concept is designed for lighter combat duties to free up the larger fleet carriers for more important tasks. Such duties of a CVE is convoy escort duty, ASW, etc. .
Click to expand...
Well, the fact is in several situations in World War II the small carriers were involved in very heavy combat...both in the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Battle off Samar in the Philippines comes to mind, as you indicate

If you send them to war, even as escorts, then they are likely to face combat and from there it will get as heavy as the enemy can amange.

These vessels are not just meant to be escort carriers as reading the book will reveal. At 50,000 tons they are full function carriers, just smaller and more quickly produced and meant to augment and supplment the much larger carriers.

As to the turbulence, those islands were all located amidships or near thereto. This island is located at the aft section of the ship and tests have not been run in that position, though the results may well be the same or even worse. OTOH, if you look at the location of the new CV-21 (CVN-78) island which is further aft on the new design, and look at its location relative to the landing area...it is not too far off in relation to this design relative to where the plnes would land, so it may not be aa consideration.

But, to emphatically reiterate to you...these vessels are entirely fictional, created for a fictional story. Posters on the forum have asked me to flesh out what was presented there, and so I have done so...I am not submitting this to the USN or the PLAN or anyone else for serious consideration.
 
P

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head said:
Well, the fact is in several situations in World War II the small carriers were involved in very heavy combat...both in the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Battle off Samar in the Philippines comes to mind, as you indicate

If you send them to war, even as escorts, then they are likely to face combat and from there it will get as heavy as the enemy can amange.

These vessels are not just meant to be escort carriers as reading the book will reveal. At 50,000 tons they are full function carriers, just smaller and more quickly produced and meant to augment and supplment the much larger carriers.

As to the turbulence, those islands were all located amidships or near thereto. This island is located at the aft section of the ship and tests have not been run in that position, though the results may well be the same or even worse. OTOH, if you look at the location of the new CV-21 (CVN-78) island which is further aft on the new design, and look at its location relative to the landing area...it is not too far off in relation to this design relative to where the plnes would land, so it may not be aa consideration.

But, to emphatically reiterate to you...these vessels are entirely fictional, created for a fictional story. Posters on the forum have asked me to flesh out what was presented there, and so I have done so...I am not submitting this to the USN or the PLAN or anyone else for serious consideration.
Click to expand...

You also forgot one more thing: such ships are expendable. There is a reason why the CVE had the nickname "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable". There is no need for them to be built particularly well due to the missions they will perform and the mercantile construction the ships are based off of. Similar ships built in World War II only had small airwings attached to them. As such, a 50,000 ton ship will only have a small airwing of less than 40 aircraft, because the small hangar that comes from the smaller size of the ship, plus the difficulties in modifying such ships for wartime carrier usage. The ARAPAHO container ship conversions only carried a handful of VSTOL aircraft, the concept allowing for only 5 helicopters. For high tempo combat operations, the limited airwing is a liability, and as such, such ships are better off operating as auxiliaries, meant to free up the dedicated fleet carriers and light carriers for combat duties.
 
P

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head said:
Well, the fact is in several situations in World War II the small carriers were involved in very heavy combat...both in the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Battle off Samar in the Philippines comes to mind, as you indicate

If you send them to war, even as escorts, then they are likely to face combat and from there it will get as heavy as the enemy can amange.

These vessels are not just meant to be escort carriers as reading the book will reveal. At 50,000 tons they are full function carriers, just smaller and more quickly produced and meant to augment and supplment the much larger carriers.

As to the turbulence, those islands were all located amidships or near thereto. This island is located at the aft section of the ship and tests have not been run in that position, though the results may well be the same or even worse. OTOH, if you look at the location of the new CV-21 (CVN-78) island which is further aft on the new design, and look at its location relative to the landing area...it is not too far off in relation to this design relative to where the plnes would land, so it may not be aa consideration.

But, to emphatically reiterate to you...these vessels are entirely fictional, created for a fictional story. Posters on the forum have asked me to flesh out what was presented there, and so I have done so...I am not submitting this to the USN or the PLAN or anyone else for serious consideration.
Click to expand...

You also forgot one more thing: such ships are expendable. There is a reason why the CVE had the nickname "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable". There is no need for them to be built particularly well due to the missions they will perform and the mercantile construction the ships are based off of. Similar ships built in World War II only had small airwings attached to them. As such, a 50,000 ton ship will only have a small airwing of less than 40 aircraft, because the small hangar that comes from the smaller size of the ship, plus the difficulties in modifying such ships for wartime carrier usage. The ARAPAHO container ship conversions only carried a handful of VSTOL aircraft, the concept allowing for only 5 helicopters. For high tempo combat operations, the limited airwing is a liability, and as such, such ships are better off operating as auxiliaries, meant to free up the dedicated fleet carriers and light carriers for combat duties.
 
P

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Jeff Head said:
Well, the fact is in several situations in World War II the small carriers were involved in very heavy combat...both in the Atlantic and the Pacific, the Battle off Samar in the Philippines comes to mind, as you indicate

If you send them to war, even as escorts, then they are likely to face combat and from there it will get as heavy as the enemy can amange.

These vessels are not just meant to be escort carriers as reading the book will reveal. At 50,000 tons they are full function carriers, just smaller and more quickly produced and meant to augment and supplment the much larger carriers.

As to the turbulence, those islands were all located amidships or near thereto. This island is located at the aft section of the ship and tests have not been run in that position, though the results may well be the same or even worse. OTOH, if you look at the location of the new CV-21 (CVN-78) island which is further aft on the new design, and look at its location relative to the landing area...it is not too far off in relation to this design relative to where the plnes would land, so it may not be aa consideration.

But, to emphatically reiterate to you...these vessels are entirely fictional, created for a fictional story. Posters on the forum have asked me to flesh out what was presented there, and so I have done so...I am not submitting this to the USN or the PLAN or anyone else for serious consideration.
Click to expand...

You also forgot one more thing: such ships are expendable. There is a reason why the CVE had the nickname "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable". There is no need for them to be built particularly well due to the missions they will perform and the mercantile construction the ships are based off of. Similar ships built in World War II only had small airwings attached to them. As such, a 50,000 ton ship will only have a small airwing of less than 40 aircraft, because the small hangar that comes from the smaller size of the ship, plus the difficulties in modifying such ships for wartime carrier usage. The ARAPAHO container ship conversions only carried a handful of VSTOL aircraft, the concept allowing for only 5 helicopters. For high tempo combat operations, the limited airwing is a liability, and as such, such ships are better off operating as auxiliaries, meant to free up the dedicated fleet carriers and light carriers for combat duties.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Pointblank said:
You also forgot one more thing: such ships are expendable. There is a reason why the CVE had the nickname "Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable". There is no need for them to be built particularly well due to the missions they will perform and the mercantile construction the ships are based off of. Similar ships built in World War II only had small airwings attached to them. As such, a 50,000 ton ship will only have a small airwing of less than 40 aircraft, because the small hangar that comes from the smaller size of the ship, plus the difficulties in modifying such ships for wartime carrier usage. The ARAPAHO container ship conversions only carried a handful of VSTOL aircraft, the concept allowing for only 5 helicopters. For high tempo combat operations, the limited airwing is a liability, and as such, such ships are better off operating as auxiliaries, meant to free up the dedicated fleet carriers and light carriers for combat duties.
Click to expand...
48 aircraft...with a hangar designed specifically to accomodate them...but again...it is fictional.

I am well aware of the CVEs and what they represented and how they were used...it is an amazing story and they were very well utilized not only for what the intent was, but off Samar they proved their worth and valor in a most emphatic and dramatic way, preventing an absolute disaster.

Thanks for the conversation.
 
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