PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Jeff, you`r right,

escorts should have their own ASW helos onboard to function effectively

Click to expand...

but what about both 051 C?
They have no helos onboard, they need ASW (and AEW-)helos, carriied by other ships - to function effectively.
Thats why I think, both 051 C will operate in a Battle Group - and I prefer a CBG, because the carrier could operate a lot of ASW- and AEW Helos, more, than both 051 C ever could have onboard ....

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Sczepan said:

Jeff, you`r right,

but what about both 051 C?
They have no helos onboard, they need ASW (and AEW-)helos, carriied by other ships - to function effectively.
Thats why I think, both 051 C will operate in a Battle Group - and I prefer a CBG, because the carrier could operate a lot of ASW- and AEW Helos, more, than both 051 C ever could have onboard ....

Click to expand...

I also believe that 051c is intended for CBG because lack of ASW capabilities and that PLAN intends to use new type 054 frigates for ASW…

What probably bugs Jeff is fact that CBG is not sailing in trail formation like we may see on PLAN exercises propaganda pictures but escorts are rather deployed around carrier to provide forward defenses and by doing so hellos on DDG are used to increase range of CBG ASW defenses…

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Well 051C isent propaply 'intended' for anyting...it merely a opportunist change to produce a yet nother AA DDG for PLAN fleet, on obsolete hull and therefore accepting lot of compromises that makes the ship little much out of any use outside of possiple CBG. Another example of still rather 'young' fleet experimenting and scratihng together as much 'modern' ships as possiple.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

isthvan said:

I also believe that 051c is intended for CBG because lack of ASW capabilities and that PLAN intends to use new type 054 frigates for ASW…

What probably bugs Jeff is fact that CBG is not sailing in trail formation like we may see on PLAN exercises propaganda pictures but escorts are rather deployed around carrier to provide forward defenses and by doing so hellos on DDG are used to increase range of CBG ASW defenses…

Click to expand...

No, it doesn't bug me. That pic of the PLAN Carrier group is not real...I created it in Paint Shop Pro to show what one might look like. I simply believe that the PLAN will couple stroing ASW escorts with the CBG. That's all. They may well add, as I incidated in my last post, the 51C for additional AAW defense, which it could add to any CBG or SAG it accompanied.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Sczepan said:

Jeff, you`r right,

but what about both 051 C?
They have no helos onboard, they need ASW (and AEW-)helos, carriied by other ships - to function effectively.
Thats why I think, both 051 C will operate in a Battle Group - and I prefer a CBG, because the carrier could operate a lot of ASW- and AEW Helos, more, than both 051 C ever could have onboard ....

Click to expand...

They may well add the 51Cs in there too to further augment and increase AAW support. But I believe there will be the two 52Cs and a couple of the 54 FFGs, and probably at least one of the new type 093 ssn's to cover the ASW role adequately.

My own feeling is that some of that will also come from the carrier itself...but just helping in the inner ring. Other escorts will range many miles in front of and to the sides of the carrier...with help to the rear as well. The carrier itself will be mainly devoted to strike aircraft and air superiority (fleet air defense) in my opinion.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Jeff Head said:

No, it doesn't bug me. That pic of the PLAN Carrier group is not real...I created it in Paint Shop Pro to show what one might look like. I simply believe that the PLAN will couple stroing ASW escorts with the CBG. That's all. They may well add, as I incidated in my last post, the 51C for additional AAW defense, which it could add to any CBG or SAG it accompanied.

Click to expand...

Jeff I know that image is CGI… What I meant to say is that CBG at sea have escorts serving as forward defenses and that they are not sailing whit carrier but miles around carrier and that way make layers of defense so potential opponent is not even capable to come near weapons range of carrier… That’s why I also think that DDG whit good ASW capabilities are essential for CBG because they greatly improve range of ASW capabilities.
It same thing whit air defenses….

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

isthvan said:

Jeff I know that image is CGI… What I meant to say is that CBG at sea have escorts serving as forward defenses and that they are not sailing whit carrier but miles around carrier and that way make layers of defense so potential opponent is not even capable to come near weapons range of carrier… That’s why I also think that DDG whit good ASW capabilities are essential for CBG because they greatly improve range of ASW capabilities.
It same thing whit air defenses….

Click to expand...

Agreed. In essense, that is what I am saying as well.

That pic is showing a purely fictional transit for show only in narrow waters. In the open ocean or under real threat conditions of any type, those escorts, as I said in my last post, would be miles and miles ahead of the carrier with only the inner ring, home plate escorts nearby. As such, they would need the ASW defenses to screen the carrier at range, and to defend themselves. As you say, same for AAW.

I believe additional ASW defenses within the inner ring are critical too. Some feel a homplate escort with little ASW capabilities is ok...I feel that having those additional helos are critical to augment the carriers own helos and to make more room on the carrier for strike aircraft. Anyhow, this is a debate and discussion that has gone on for a long time around the world. The USN has opeted to make all of its escorts multi-functional-ASW, AAW, and ASuW. Even the Halsey FFG is designed with that in mind.

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

so the 051 C DDGs could become part of the "inner defense ring", home plate escorts nearby, - and 052 C miles and miles ahead
makes sense to me

a new pic of Vayag, I am just wondering about one thing: we've never seen detailled pics by installing antennas, radar and other equipments like this - only the hull was paintet and the tower or island was red coloured as first ground painting .... could they build these new installations now ?

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

New Varyag pics!! Where??? That little thumbnail. All kidding aside I'm pretty sure we have seen it before. As I look at it closelyit does not look like much has been done to the ship recently.

Recently??? Do any of us know how "recent" that picture is?

I long for some new pictures!

Re: Latest Varyag Pics

sorry if you've seen this pic before - I can't remember, so I thought it was a new one .....