PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

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Sea Dog

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

I'm not so sure steam-catapults would be such a good idea for Varyag. Especially if China buys the Su-33 Naval Flanker for use aboard it. The Su-33 was built to lift heavy loads off the deck. Those canards generate alot of lift. Catapults are just another thing to maintain and a ski-jump requires nothing. Why change this paradigm in Varyag's operational philosophy? Seems to me the right balance was built into the design.
 
Gollevainen

Gollevainen

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

why to change the operational philosophy? Becouse it was wrong philosophy from the begining. As i said, the Ski-jump solution was based onthe fact that the orginal planes intended to operate from Kuznetsov/Varyag was to be the Yak-41 V/STOL planes. The SU-33 just proven out to be powerfull enought to take off form the ski-jump as well, but the orginal idea of having them aboard whit catapult was rejected on behalf of the yakolevs plane.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Well, I'm thinking that a catapult could do two things. 1) it would allow su-33s do carry a greater payload, which would help in the anti ship missions. 2) if China puts a TVC engine with higher thrust on J-10, a catapult might allow it to take off from the carrier.
 
Gollevainen

Gollevainen

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

J-10 can propaply takeoff even form the Ski-jump (not to mentioning from catapult) whitout TVCs...remember that the tailess delta/canard configuration has marvelous STOL ability. Only question is the eternety struggle; is single engined fighters a good idea in carriers????
 
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IDonT

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Gollevainen said:
J-10 can propaply takeoff even form the Ski-jump (not to mentioning from catapult) whitout TVCs...remember that the tailess delta/canard configuration has marvelous STOL ability. Only question is the eternety struggle; is single engined fighters a good idea in carriers????
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I think that way of thinking is rubbing of the USN. The harrier carrier operators had never had a problem with a single engine harrier before.

Although nobody uses carriers the way the USN does (in terms of operation tempo, bad weather ops, night ops, etc), maybe that warrants their 2 engine requirement for all carrier capable aircraft.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Intrepid said:
If I have to install a catapult, I would install a waist catapult. So the ski jump can remain unchanged and I have the opportunity to test catapulted take offs from the angled deck as well as unassisted take offs over the ski jump ramp.
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Waist catapult?:confused: :) ..Love that term!! That's a common phrase on a USN CV. It refer's to the catapults comming off the angle deck. Excellent phrase. Another thing though is that on a USN CV no one calls the catapults catapults. They call them "cats". the flight deck is often refered to as the "roof".

Only question is the eternety struggle; is single engined fighters a good idea in carriers????
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Probaly depends on the realibalty of the aircrafts engine. The USN operated single engine aircraft successfully for many years off of CV's. A-7, A-4 & F-8 and others.
 
Intrepid

Intrepid

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

With low cost aircraft and expendable crewmembers you can do it single engine, well trained pilots should fly sophisticated multiengine aircraft.

Or you are the master of the see and can fish every ditched pilot out of the water within minutes after he went down. That means a lot of helos circling in the area and some submarines as planeguards for the more hostile waters.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

Or you are the master of the see and can fish every ditched pilot out of the water within minutes after he went down. That means a lot of helos circling in the area and some submarines as planeguards for the more hostile waters.
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The USN/USMC team are excellent at waterborne rescue. USN DDG's & FFG's act as planeguards. USN CV's now deploy with up to 10 SH-60's variants.

Two engines is always better. But two engine aircraft they crash also. They do have better surivalblity.

When the PLAN sends it's first CV to sea do not expect perfection. It will take 2-5 years for the PLAN to be somewhat proficent in operating a CV battle group.
 
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Sczepan

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Re: Latest Varyag Pics

there it is:
China has apparently been working on an aircraft carrier program since the early 1980s, and as part of this effort a F-8 Chinese fighter was reportedly shot off of a steam catapult at the Lushun naval base in 1987.
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and
Janes: China testing steam catapult in shanghai --- postet by richard que in CMF, 09/07/2002, 06:25:11

rumors, I think, but "Non Testate"
 
renmin

renmin

Junior Member
Re: Latest Varyag Pics

China's first carriar is rumored to be completed by 2010. The Airwing would probably be Jian-10s,Jian-8IIs,Jian-11s,and possibaly,Su-33s if China obtains them from Russia. The Varyag will probably serve as a test carrier to see if these aircraft are capable for this kind of takeoff. China's new carrier will probably have a Ski-jump like the Varyag.
 
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