PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

Great pictures Jeff! I thought that was the 22DDH, for all intent and purposes it's looks like a size of a carrier!

One thing I love about the JMSDF is the camo on thier vessals that dark colour really brings the beauty of the ships out

All in all with these two and two Hyuga class and 3 Osumi Class JMSDF will have a 7 flat tops

Aussies have two Camberra Class and South Korea has one Dokdo Class with opition of extra 3 totalling 4

Russia will base its two Mistral Class in the far East, all in all the this region will have 12 flat tops 15 if f South Korea builds 3 more Dokdo Class, that's hell of a helo/aircraft fleet

While China and India are focusing on true aircraft carriers with the intent of having 3 each, 6 aircraft carriers in total
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

bd popeye said:
Great photos Jeff! Thanks for posting!

Ok Jeff..is this your guess or is this the official capacity as stated by the JMSDF? I ask because they (JMSDF) like to understate their capacity..even their displacement.
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The official JMSDF currently says it is capable of 14-16 helos, but that they only plan on 7-11 currently.

But, with the deck-edge lift, the larger hanger, and the removal of the CIWS from the bow to a sponson as opposed to the Hyuga, they have clearly prepared these vessels for the JSF and Osprey IMHO, and so the fixed wing numbers are mine.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

Thanks Jeff. IMO a ship that large can carry easily 24 helos and at least 6 JSF. However, the crew accommodations do not allow for enough crew men maintain that larger of an airwing. JMSDF has rather luxurious accommodations for all hands.

...that stated I believe the JMSDF figures.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

bd popeye said:
Thanks Jeff. IMO a ship that large can carry easily 24 helos and at least 6 JSF. However, the crew accommodations do not allow for enough crew men maintain that larger of an airwing. JMSDF has rather luxurious accommodations for all hands.

...that stated I believe the JMSDF figures.
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I believe them too, and initially that is exactly the way it will be.

However, we also know that they are looking at buying a relative small number of F-35s, at least a small number if considered for Air Force use. But, with the capabilities of this 22DDH and the sister ship that will be built after it (24DDH I believe), it is not a small number if intended to be embarked upon such ships, and to maintain a training group for them as well.

We are just going to have to wait and see because it will be some time before the Japanese close an F-35 deal, and then a few years before they receive them.

In the mean time, that vessel is moving along rapidly, is very nice looking, and clearly MUCH larger than the Hyugas. Can't wait to see it launched.

Within twelve months of the first launch listed, we are going to see all of the following launched, outfitting and/or in trials:

- USS Gerald R. Ford
- HMS Queen Elizabeth
- JMSDF 22DDH
- INS Vikramaditya
- RAN Canberra

Those are five very capable vessels, and it is going to be exciting times for all naval enthusiasts.

I cannot remember a time when five such large flattops were all launched within a twelve month period.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

Ahem... Technology never stops.

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WASHINGTON (NNS) -- USS George H. W. Bush (CVN 77) conducted the first aircraft carrier-borne end-to-end at-sea test of the Surface Ship Torpedo Defense (SSTD) System, the Navy announced, June 6.

The SSTD System combines the passive detection capability of the Torpedo Warning System that not only finds torpedoes, but also classifies and tracks them, with the hard-kill capability of the Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo, an encapsulated miniature torpedo. The at-sea tests were conducted May 15-19.

The Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo is being developed by the Pennsylvania State University Applied Research Laboratory (PSU-ARL). It is designed to locate, home in on and destroy hostile torpedoes. Over the four-day testing period, Bush engaged seven torpedo-like targets with seven Countermeasure Anti-Torpedoes. Designed to validate the end-to-end of the system, the testing proved successful.

"These tests are a culmination of a very focused effort by the Navy including the program office, Bush's crew, Norfolk Naval Shipyard and our academic and industrial partners. With all seven of our shots doing what they are designed and built to do, it validates our work and significantly enhances our current capabilities," said Capt. Moises DelToro, the Undersea Defensive Warfare Systems program manager.

This first end-to-end test of the SSTD System achieved several firsts: the first Torpedo Warning System detection of targets from a carrier, the first automatic detection and automatic targeting of an incoming torpedo target from a ship, the first launch of Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo from a carrier and the first end to end Torpedo Warning System and Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo system detection-to-engage at-sea test.

"It is gratifying to have these tests go so well," said Rear Adm. David Johnson, program executive officer, Submarines, whose portfolio includes the Undersea Defensive Warfare Systems Program Office. "The engineering involved to detect a hostile torpedo, process its direction, speed, depth, and then engage it with a carrier-launched Countermeasure Anti-Torpedo is impressive. I am confident that the fleet will be pleased with the results."

Given the complexity of the system, the program office is taking an incremental approach to the development and acquisition of the Surface Ship Torpedo Defense System.

"What is currently aboard Bush is an engineering development model, or EDM, that is a fully-functioning system, but not the final configuration or production model," DelToro said. "We're learning from the Bush to improve the system so we can provide the most robust and cost-effective hard-kill anti-torpedo capability possible."

The Navy currently plans to equip all aircraft carriers and other high-value units with the Surface Ship Torpedo Defense system by 2035.
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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

Surprised this sort of thing has taken so long, if they can detect a incoming missile in the air and engage it, which is much faster then a slow moving torpedo shouldn't be that difficult, but it's under water
 
thunderchief

thunderchief

Senior Member
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

asif iqbal said:
Surprised this sort of thing has taken so long, if they can detect a incoming missile in the air and engage it, which is much faster then a slow moving torpedo shouldn't be that difficult, but it's under water
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Problem of anti-torpedo defense is not so much about detecting torpedo or even destroying it i.e. detecting coordinates of said torpedo close enough to destroy it . Main problem is what happens after detonation . Under-water explosion creates temporary blind zone for sonar in near proximity . What happens if enemy launches not one but let's say three torpedoes ? When you destroy one you will definitely lose track of other two for some time , unless your hard kill anti-torpedo defense system is not small and precise enough not to create large splash when disabling enemy torpedo and does not detonate it .


Btw , Soviets and Russians were tinkering with various hard kill anti-torpedo systems , this one is commercially available :

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[video=youtube;KBpNNVuD4ik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBpNNVuD4ik[/video]
 
N

no_name

Colonel
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

thunderchief said:
Problem of anti-torpedo defense is not so much about detecting torpedo or even destroying it i.e. detecting coordinates of said torpedo close enough to destroy it . Main problem is what happens after detonation . Under-water explosion creates temporary blind zone for sonar in near proximity . What happens if enemy launches not one but let's say three torpedoes ? When you destroy one you will definitely lose track of other two for some time , unless your hard kill anti-torpedo defense system is not small and precise enough not to create large splash when disabling enemy torpedo and does not detonate it .
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Does that not go the other way as well? I.e. the blind zone will also affect the torpedoes homing in on the ship.
 
thunderchief

thunderchief

Senior Member
Re: Aircraft Carriers II

no_name said:
Does that not go the other way as well? I.e. the blind zone will also affect the torpedoes homing in on the ship.
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Well , that would depend on type of guidance :

- Straight and pattern-running torpedoes obviously would not be affected :D

- Wake-homing torpedoes should not be affected by much . In fact , during the 80s and 90s USN experimented with various methods to jam and spoof dangerous Soviet wake-homing torpedoes . One of the methods involved controlled explosions in ship's wake but no significant results were achieved .

- Wire-guided torpedoes depend on firing solution from submarine (or ship) . Most of the targeting systems on those platforms would try to extrapolate position of the target based on previous data (last known position , speed , course etc) . Since large ships cannot maneuver that fast , there is a pretty good chance they could not escape far enough to evade torpedo , especially if they are reacquired few dozens of seconds later .

- Finally ,acoustic torpedoes would almost certainly loose their targets in case of nearby underwater explosions . But again , in such circumstances they are per-programmed to head for the last known position of the target (in fact to head for last calculated intercepting point , but that is a whole different topic ) . Just like in the case of wire-guided torpedoes lot will depend on maneuverability of the targeted shop .

P.S. There are rumors about heat-seeking and magnetic torpedoes but I would not dwell on that . Obviously , if they exist in operational service , they would not be affected in this scenario .
 
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