PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: The PICs every PLAN enthusiast is waiting for

SinoSoldier said:

Having a training ship as a capital ship? That sounds rather unsafe and uneconomical to me. My guess is that also Varyag can be used on missions, it will mainly be in dock (or in surrounding waters) while carrier pilots train on it.

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In order for pilots to train on it it will have to be well away from dock and local waters. it has to have a full head of steam (meaning underway at full speed) to generate the wind necessary for the lift for the aircraft, and needs to have plenty of space around it to do that training. And that is simple takeoofs and landings. The time will come when they train in real operations...strike at sea, land strikes, air defense, etc. in order to do that they will be far out to sea. The time will come when they train with the entire Strike group for offensive, defenisve, humanitarian, and flag showing exercises...that will occur far out to sea.

Fact is, the Varyag, the day it is commissioned will be the PLAN principle capitol ship. They will use it to train for future carrier operations and development of their strategy...and then they will use it to execute those strategies.

If you think not...just wait. Time will show which of us is correct in this.

SinoSoldier said:

I highly doubt, with the extent of the modifications done to the Varyag, that it will be a front line PLAN vessel or even a patrol vessel. Think of it as a giant floating school. This leads me to believe, since the Varyag won't probably be deployed that often, that it would not get China's front line defense system.

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As stated, IMHO, you are mistaken in this conjecture.

SinoSoldier said:

A refitted Varyag can hardly compete with other contemporary carriers, thus its only effective role is to train crew and perhaps doing some close proximity patrolling.

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The PLAN VAryag or Shi Lang, or whatever it is ultamtely christened will be more powerful and more capable than most other navies carriers by far. With the exception of the US carriers, the FrenCH De Gaulle, and maybe the Russian Carrier, it will be much more capable than any of the others currently afloat. It will be as capable, if not more so than the new UK Carriers IMHO.

So this notion that it cannot compete is simply ill stated. In the right conditions, with good escorts and with potential land-air support, and a competent ballte plan and leaders, the Varyag could pose a very real threat to American carriers, and the US will not discount that threat, nor should they. it will be a potent weapon...particularly as the PLAN follows on with other carriers.

SinoSoldier said:

I don't see anything that puts the Varyag ahead of any other country's carriers.

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Outside of the US and French, it's defensive systems are better than almost all others, outside of the US, its escorts are as good as or better than almost all others, outside of the US and French (and Russia) its airwing is larger and more powerful than the others.

Come on, if you do not know these things, then you have not studied other nation's carriers very well IMHO.

The J-15s, even with the limitations of the ski-jump in terms of weight, will out perform and fight any current VTOL jets until the VTOL F-35 is available. And, if they figure out "buddy" stores or other refueling capabilities to help offset this issue, then they will be very powerful as an airwing indeed.

See

Re: The PICs every PLAN enthusiast is waiting for

Varyag is made for training but it isnt equipped for just training, cus training carrier dont have 2 CIWS and 4FLN-3000 SAM they are serious, and they will use Varyag along with frigates and desroyers working together as a network to provide training and experince in battle group and fix out bugs and datalinks etc, so Type 054A and Type 52C seem logical, afterall thats why they were made

if Royal Navy can have 6 Type 45 air defence destroyers for 2 Queen Elizabeth class carriers then PLAN can have 6 Type 052C for its fleet, although that number is sure to rise

Re: The PICs every PLAN enthusiast is waiting for

Jeff Head said:

The PLAN VAryag or Shi Lang, or whatever it is ultamtely christened will be more powerful and more capable than most other navies carriers by far. With the exception of the US carriers, the FrenCH De Gaulle, and maybe the Russian Carrier, it will be much more capable than any of the others currently afloat. It will be as capable, if not more so than the new UK Carriers IMHO.

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Hey Jeff so you think the Charles De Gaulle will be more capable than the new QE class carriers too?

Does the nuclear propulsion and catapults make up for the significant difference in dislacement between the De Gaulle and the QE/Varyag if each were fully loaded? (~20,000 tons difference)
I would think the extra volume and larger airwing etc would make the QE/Varyag comparable at least to the De Gaulle?

Re: The PICs every PLAN enthusiast is waiting for

Bltizo said:

Hey Jeff so you think the Charles De Gaulle will be more capable than the new QE class carriers too?

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The Rafales, the E2-Cs for AEW (though a V-22 AEW variant would help) catapults, nuclear power, etc. all add up, IMHO, to give the De Gaulle the advantage...though the UK carriers will be powerful. If they go CATOBAR, the UK may gain the advantage.

Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

To call J-15 as strike fighter could be a bit of stretch I afraid. While yes they could've integrated such capability onto the platform but given the fact that carrier takeoff is ski-jump method, it'd restrict its payload significantly, thus to conduct strike it'd have to launch from land...that'd leave its carrier-op primarily air defense role.

¦^ÂÃ: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

any pics of folded wings, i still havnt seen any?

Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

We've seen the j-15 model on the wuhan training platform holding yj-82 or kd-88 missiles, and I imagine it wouldn't be a massive stretch for it to carry some smaller LT, ft, or LS series pgm's with a reasonable amount of range from ski jump.

Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

MwRYum said:

To call J-15 as strike fighter could be a bit of stretch I afraid. While yes they could've integrated such capability onto the platform but given the fact that carrier takeoff is ski-jump method, it'd restrict its payload significantly, thus to conduct strike it'd have to launch from land...that'd leave its carrier-op primarily air defense role.

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Well this assumption is based on the fact that the J-15 will only be used to equipped the Varyag. From what I've been able to gather Varyag will primarily be used as a training vessel for future Chinese carriers. We all know that China has been working on catapults so the ski-jump method may not be used on domestic aircraft carriers. It would be a bit of a pity not to utilize the large flanker as a strike aircraft.

Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

I would not put the Rafale or the Su-33 ahead of the J-15.

The J-15, apart from its airframe and landing gear, is pretty much not related to the Su-33. Its avionics, FBW controls, weapons packages are completely new and represent the next-generation of naval fighter aircraft. Its avionics are believed to be based on the J-11B's avionics, but newer. The engines are also more powerful than the Al-31. Being equipped with these engines, the J-15 would have a higher T/W ratio than the Rafale/Su-33 and thus possess a maneuverability and speed advantage. The supposedly modified airframe and its next generation avionics also should give it a low observability advantage when compared to the Rafale, let alone the Su-33.

Chinese military officials stated that the J-15 and J-11B incorporates a newly developed AESA radar and may incorporate thrust vectoring in the future.

Chinese military officials also said that the J-15 is at least on the same level as the Rafale-M and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in terms of performance. The Su-33 does not even come into the equation.





But again, I do not think the J-15 is the best work. It clearly is based off a Cold War airframe and is far from competing against near future American carrier based aircraft. That is I think why the PLANAF is also building the reported stealthy carrier based fighter (J-18?).

Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

MwRYum said:

To call J-15 as strike fighter could be a bit of stretch I afraid. While yes they could've integrated such capability onto the platform but given the fact that carrier takeoff is ski-jump method, it'd restrict its payload significantly, thus to conduct strike it'd have to launch from land...that'd leave its carrier-op primarily air defense role.

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With a buddy store capability for inflight fueling, the J-15 could take off with minimal fuel and a heavier weapons load and then fill up after takeoff. That's one way to help do more than air defense only off of the Varyag. Also, these aircraft will also be used for later carriers that could be CATOBAR.