PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

planeman said:

... but what about micro-carriers as escorts for the main carrier? 3-5 helicopters, 10,000 tons and full AAD capability.

Click to expand...

I don't like those things, a bit of everything and nothing completely.
I also sometines think of mini CVs, but only with point defence capability and reliance on AAW escorts. Those mini carriers could then improve the situational awareness footprint of a SAG or perhaps even CSG. A few helos for improved ASW, or small, perhaps VTOL / tilt rotor UAVs with EO / RDR sensors to extant the picture beyond the visible horizon.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Scratch said:

I don't like those things, a bit of everything and nothing completely.
I also sometines think of mini CVs, but only with point defence capability and reliance on AAW escorts. Those mini carriers could then improve the situational awareness footprint of a SAG or perhaps even CSG. A few helos for improved ASW, or small, perhaps VTOL / tilt rotor UAVs with EO / RDR sensors to extant the picture beyond the visible horizon.

Click to expand...

According to DK Brown, mini carriers/hybrids such as these are uneconomical for any air group smaller than six aircraft/helos as the costs of support facillities and maintenance personnel remain the same below that level, unless just a single shipboard helo is embarked as on a Destroyer or Frigate. Two lifts seems a little extravagent for three helos, so if one lift is deleted you immediately gain space for an extra couple of lynx sized machines or a Merlin. The JMSDF's Hyuga can operate a much larger airgroup than this anyway despite the politically influenced BS being circulated. If the air group is six or less, then a conventional hangar and pad aft is the preferred layout, and if more airframes are required then the through deck layout becomes the more economical and practical way to go.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Scratch said:

I don't like those things, a bit of everything and nothing completely.
I also sometines think of mini CVs, but only with point defence capability and reliance on AAW escorts. Those mini carriers could then improve the situational awareness footprint of a SAG or perhaps even CSG. A few helos for improved ASW, or small, perhaps VTOL / tilt rotor UAVs with EO / RDR sensors to extant the picture beyond the visible horizon.

Click to expand...

According to DK Brown, mini carriers/hybrids such as these are uneconomical for any air group smaller than six aircraft/helos as the costs of support facillities and maintenance personnel remain the same below that level, unless just a single shipboard helo is embarked as on a Destroyer or Frigate. Two lifts seems a little extravagent for three helos, so if one lift is deleted you immediately gain space for an extra couple of lynx sized machines or a Merlin. The JMSDF's Hyuga can operate a much larger airgroup than this anyway despite the politically influenced BS being circulated. If the air group is six or less, then a conventional hangar and pad aft is the preferred layout, and if more airframes are required then the through deck layout becomes the more economical and practical way to go.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Scratch said:

I don't like those things, a bit of everything and nothing completely.
I also sometines think of mini CVs, but only with point defence capability and reliance on AAW escorts. Those mini carriers could then improve the situational awareness footprint of a SAG or perhaps even CSG. A few helos for improved ASW, or small, perhaps VTOL / tilt rotor UAVs with EO / RDR sensors to extant the picture beyond the visible horizon.

Click to expand...

According to DK Brown, mini carriers/hybrids such as these are uneconomical for any air group smaller than six aircraft/helos as the costs of support facillities and maintenance personnel remain the same below that level, unless just a single shipboard helo is embarked as on a Destroyer or Frigate. Two lifts seems a little extravagent for three helos, so if one lift is deleted you immediately gain space for an extra couple of lynx sized machines or a Merlin. The JMSDF's Hyuga can operate a much larger airgroup than this anyway despite the politically influenced BS being circulated. If the air group is six or less, then a conventional hangar and pad aft is the preferred layout, and if more airframes are required then the through deck layout becomes the more economical and practical way to go.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Well, since I'm probably looking into a 4-6 airframe fit, it's getting a bit difficult.
Maybe it would finally become a cruiser with one NH-90, one and two like platforms as the minimum fit. With different ISR and also ASW capabilities.
That would then also go back somewhat to the original meaning of cruiser I think. I'm not primarily looking for sea-controll already but just increased awareness. Primary armament of the ship wouldn't be that great either. Maybe it could fit into an 8.000-9.000t hull?
For more I already see a small multi-mission LHD like platform that can carry any mix of light inf (up to one battalion[?], perhaps more like one or two companies), helos (up to two heay, 2-6 light-medium transport / ASW / attack), and UAVs, like those mentioned above.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Well, since I'm probably looking into a 4-6 airframe fit, it's getting a bit difficult.
Maybe it would finally become a cruiser with one NH-90, one and two like platforms as the minimum fit. With different ISR and also ASW capabilities.
That would then also go back somewhat to the original meaning of cruiser I think. I'm not primarily looking for sea-controll already but just increased awareness. Primary armament of the ship wouldn't be that great either. Maybe it could fit into an 8.000-9.000t hull?
For more I already see a small multi-mission LHD like platform that can carry any mix of light inf (up to one battalion[?], perhaps more like one or two companies), helos (up to two heay, 2-6 light-medium transport / ASW / attack), and UAVs, like those mentioned above.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

Well, since I'm probably looking into a 4-6 airframe fit, it's getting a bit difficult.
Maybe it would finally become a cruiser with one NH-90, one and two like platforms as the minimum fit. With different ISR and also ASW capabilities.
That would then also go back somewhat to the original meaning of cruiser I think. I'm not primarily looking for sea-controll already but just increased awareness. Primary armament of the ship wouldn't be that great either. Maybe it could fit into an 8.000-9.000t hull?
For more I already see a small multi-mission LHD like platform that can carry any mix of light inf (up to one battalion[?], perhaps more like one or two companies), helos (up to two heay, 2-6 light-medium transport / ASW / attack), and UAVs, like those mentioned above.

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

planeman said:

This is obviously drawn with a Royal Navy fit, but what about micro-carriers as escorts for the main carrier? 3-5 helicopters, 10,000 tons and full AAD capability.

[qimg]http://i35.tinypic.com/s1ib2w.png[/qimg]

Click to expand...

this toy is much to small - I prefer light strike aircraft carrier with a min. Displacement of 20,000 tons full load

to me this seems the smallest displacement to use catapults and light weight ground attack planes, in combination with helos it will become a usefull pocket carrier - for escort and amphibious operations (as I sad before ....)

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

planeman said:

This is obviously drawn with a Royal Navy fit, but what about micro-carriers as escorts for the main carrier? 3-5 helicopters, 10,000 tons and full AAD capability.

[qimg]http://i35.tinypic.com/s1ib2w.png[/qimg]

Click to expand...

this toy is much to small - I prefer light strike aircraft carrier with a min. Displacement of 20,000 tons full load

to me this seems the smallest displacement to use catapults and light weight ground attack planes, in combination with helos it will become a usefull pocket carrier - for escort and amphibious operations (as I sad before ....)

Re: Ideal chinese carrier thread

planeman said:

This is obviously drawn with a Royal Navy fit, but what about micro-carriers as escorts for the main carrier? 3-5 helicopters, 10,000 tons and full AAD capability.

[qimg]http://i35.tinypic.com/s1ib2w.png[/qimg]

Click to expand...

this toy is much to small - I prefer light strike aircraft carrier with a min. Displacement of 20,000 tons full load

to me this seems the smallest displacement to use catapults and light weight ground attack planes, in combination with helos it will become a usefull pocket carrier - for escort and amphibious operations (as I sad before ....)