This is more likely to be training for AWACS crews.
PLAN ASW Capability
- Thread starter shen
- Start date
Comparing the PLANAF's ASW MPA fleet with JMSDF's ASW MPA fleet shouldn't be done so casually.
First of all, prior to 2015-2016, the PLANAF had no true ASW MPA in service at all. The Y-8Q/KQ-200 was their first ASW MPA.
I personally suspect that as of mid 2022, the PLANAF probably have 50-60 KQ-200s in service which is a reasonable number to have procured in the span of 6 or so years, especially given that they are rapidly moving to the next variant "Y-9Q" which will have further modernized subsystems and incorporate lessons and advances in operating Y-8Q.
Second of all, the JMSDF in the late cold war to post cold war era is well known to have had the world's largest ASW MPA fleet after the USN. The USN and JMSDF both ranked among the military forces with the largest ASW MPAs among the world -- the gap between number 2 and number 3 was very large.
This should not come as a surprise and should not be "appalling", as this is a disparity that has existed for decades prior. I would argue that prior to the mid 2010s, it probably wouldn't have made sense for the PLANAF to procure ASW MPAs in large numbers because the PLA wouldn't have had the combat aviation capability to contest the airspace in the first island chain to begin with -- the prerequisite for ASW MPAs to operate in!
.... so really it's quite impressive how far the PLANAF has come with their own ASW MPA fleet, and I certainly expect them to grow further to end up with about a total fleet of 100 or more aircraft in the long term.
In terms of ASW helicopters, up to this point the PLAN has been limited by the lack of a mass producible medium weight helicopter airframe which can be equipped with a full suite of ASW systems including SSR, EO/IR turret, dipping sonar, sonobuoy dispenser, and ability to carry torpedoes at the same time.
Z-20F changes this, and once Z-20F enters production I expect PLAN ASW helicopter capability and capacity to increase fairly quickly.
But one thing that the PLAN has done fairly well in is equipping surface combatants with comprehensive sonar suites.
The PLAN's 52 056A corvettes, 054As from hull 17 onwards, all of their 052Ds and 055s, are equipped with a towed linear sonar and a towed variable depth sonar. That is quite a lot of hulls with a twin towed sonar suite.
USVs and UUVs and other future such systems will naturally be part of the PLAN's ASW capabilities and platforms.
However I think having some perspective to recognize that it was only recently in the last half decade or more, that:
- the PLA had the airframes/platforms to produce ASW variants of sufficient performance, and/or
- the PLA had the combat aviation capability to contest the air over the areas of operation and attain the prerequisite with which to operate ASW MPAs
- the PLA introduced the first true ASW MPA in its history only 6 years ago
... all that, combined with arguably the world's largest twin towed sonar equipped fleet of surface combatants (all of which entered service really in the last 8 years), should lead one to recognize just how far the PLA has actually come in a relatively short span of time.
3 and 4*
There was another big one back then.
In the post cold war era, not as much, especially in terms of true readiness and capability.
I was specific about number 2 and 3 deliberately.
Besides, out of everything written in that post, for this thread topic, why choose that particular thing to quibble over?
In terms of true readiness and capability, that other one worked every day against US, UK, German, Japanese, and (insert some other unique and important) boats, often dozens of them every day, in conditions not too dissimilar from actual war. All that over the whole Northern hemisphere, from the Caribbean to Philippine sea.
Just a wrong fact, with resulting conclusion which i can't completely agree with(JMSDF always was here, PLANAF sorta appeared out of thin air).
Fixing wrongs improves the level of discussion. Especially when a significant part of PLAN ASW capability has roots in that very "forgotten" ASW force - some of its aircraft and some of the main ASW weapons still directly date back there.
PLANAF patrol aviation numbers did indeed appear out of nowhere - but there was some basis to work from.
Whose airframe will be modified, do you read the article?
Also the PLAN's SURTASS ships will presumably make a difference.
As I said, in the post cold war era I do not believe that Russian asw MPA capabilities were of sufficient readiness or capability to be considered in the same ballpark as that of the USN or JMSDF ASW MPA fleet.
I would agree that there is a meaningful gap between 3 and 4, but there the gap between 2 and 3 is still much much bigger, and putting Russian asw MPA capability in the same ballpark as that of the USN and JMSDF is misleading for the purposes of benchmarking PLANF asw MPA fleet size in terms of capability and readiness.
A big difference. Those SURTASS ships are probably the 2 best tool at finding quiet subs. They most definitely have the most powerful sonar sensors, but they really can't move that fast. If 095 turns out to be a large & quiet sub, it would be able to move around quickly and be quiet enough to find quiet subs. You can't do that as much with 054A and 056. Diesel engines are louder than gas turbines and you have to go slowly when you are hunting with TAS. As such, the biggest difference maker is just the sheer number of surface combatant they have that are equipped with TAS. Each ship covers an area. The helicopters can quickly search through an area and same with MPAs. And same with all the sea gliders, underwater sonar and AUVs. Eventually, you stumble onto a nuclear sub.
Shlao's podcast mentioned how old PLAN submariners were moved when they saw J-15s chase away P-3Cs, because they were always actively pinged by Japanese P-3Cs back in the days. Without air superiority, MPAs are pretty much useless. With air cover, you can scan through a large area. With enough MPAs, you can scan through a really large area. But none of which is as useful as just have a fleet of really quiet and powerful nuclear subs.
"Eventually" stumbling onto a nuclear sub will be difficult past the 1st Island Chain.
Also, my understanding is that surface ships operate by sprinting and then drifting silently to allow their towed arrays to work.