PLAN Anti-ship/surface missiles

Bltizo said:

Note, the blue lines "within" the heat resistant walls of the missile canister are not heat resistant as they do not need to be; the exhaust will be directed under and "around" the heat resistant structure of the missile canister and the exhaust will be prevented from re-entering each individual small missile canister via the same mechanism that Mk-41 hot launch quad packs prevent each individual missile within a cell from igniting.

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I should probably add on that when I say the blue lines/walls are "not heat resistant" I mean they are not heat resistant in the same way that the missile cell wall structure is and the way the overall large missile canister wall is.
Those surfaces will have to cope with venting exhaust for longer periods during the launch process compared to the blue surfaces that make up two of the walls of each small missile canister.

Heat is probably not the main concern. Bigger concern would be the flame that would ignite the solid rocket motors if they come too close so need to release those flames away from the missile exhaust. The method I can think of is hot launch canisters are double hulled and the exhaust is guided between the hulls.
This also means that that the diameter of missiles are regulated by the inner hull size and not the outer hull size.

SamuraiBlue said:

Heat is probably not the main concern. Bigger concern would be the flame that would ignite the solid rocket motors if they come too close so need to release those flames away from the missile exhaust.

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The flame from an exhaust shouldn't come into any physical contact with the missiles inside their individual cell canisters, given each individual canister should be sealed both superiorly and inferiorly in an independent way so each missile is within its own enclosed system protected from the outside environment until it is launched.

The method I can think of is hot launch canisters are double hulled and the exhaust is guided between the hulls.
This also means that that the diameter of missiles are regulated by the inner hull size and not the outer hull size.

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My suggestion on the previous page was similar to this, with one difference being that the canister is only single hulled and that the missile cell/slot which is part of the VLS module itself makes up the second "outer hull," which together make up the exhaust vent.
I.e.: the actual missile canister's single wall/hull makes up the inner boundary of the exhaust vent, while the more permanent missile cell wall in the VLS module makes up the outer boundary of the exhaust vent. The same missile cell wall which makes up the outer boundar of the exhaust vent is also able to accommodate a cold launch missile canister with only minimal modification as the cold launch canister obviously doesn't need a vent in the first place.
This way they are able to save not only weight for the actual removable hot launch missile canister itself (better to only have one "hull" rather than two), but also to increase the diameter of the actual missile a little.

I was making my speculation based on quad pack missiles.
As for the exhaust being funneled within the canister I believe it is a bad idea considering it will cause a violent turbulent and a back draft slowing the projectile from leaving the canister since the exhaust would be faster exiting the canister then the missile itself.

SamuraiBlue said:

I was making my speculation based on quad pack missiles.
As for the exhaust being funneled within the canister I believe it is a bad idea considering it will cause a violent turbulent and a back draft slowing the projectile from leaving the canister since the exhaust would be faster exiting the canister then the missile itself.

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I think you've misunderstood me; the exhaust would only be funneled outside the canister.
Referring back to my previous picture:



The black line is indicative of the cell wall of the VLS module which makes up the outer surface/hull of the exhaust. It is not part of the missile canister and is generally non-removable.
The red line is indicative of the missile canister wall which is removable, and it makes up the inner surface/hull of the exhaust.
The orange area between that, is the area/volume of the exhaust vent itself.
The grey circle represents the missile.

In practice, the entire venting apparatus can be considered the same as it is for Mk-41,only that instead of venting the exhaust to an adjacent single large rectangular opening, it vents the exhaust to a single "outline" opening around the missile canister itself.

Blitzo ..... I am assuming your pictures are not proportional. I mean the distance between the black and the red line are not proportional to the size of the missile

antiterror13 said:

Blitzo ..... I am assuming your pictures are not proportional. I mean the distance between the black and the red line are not proportional to the size of the missile

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Obviously not.

It's just to show the boundaries. Ignore the relative size of things; it's not that important.

This is a more comprehensive side view/cross section image showing what is going on. I've got labels that I'll go through below, and it's showing the same profile and moment in time as the other image of a Mk-41 style hot launch VLS (second picture), only it is a quad packed canister instead.
One major difference between my simplified diagram and the other one, is that I do not show an empty space between the "VLS system outer structure" and the "replaceable missile canister" for my Mk-41 style VLS. Obviously such a space exists but I just didn't draw one in. OTOH, for my CCL VLS, I've deliberately included the space between the "VLS system outer structure" and the "replaceable missile canister" because that space is the actual exhaust vent for the CCL VLS.





So, in the first picture, the small grey rectangles are missiles, the black lines are non-vent surfaces, the red lines are vent surfaces, the orange colour depicts exhaust.
And the green outlines show the actual removable missile canister itself. Note how for the CCL VLS, the green outline encloses red lines, which depicts the inner exhaust surface for the CCL.

Going through the numbered labels:
1: indicates the superior "protective seal" of a single small canister. Each small canister of the quad pack canister has its own superior seal to protect the missile inside the canister when the VLS lid is open, both from the outside elements but also from the exhaust of the launch of other missiles in the same quad pack as itself. This is a common feature of all VLS canisters if one chooses to search it up, regardless of whether a canister is single or quad packed; each individual "launch unit" has its own seal. This picture below of CAMM demonstrates it well, even though it is a cold launch rather than a hot launch missile but the principle remains the same.



2: indicates the superior protective seal of a single small canister which has remained closed, while the seal next to it of the missile in adjacent small canister has opened due to the missile forcing it open. Again, look at CAMM above to see what I mean.
3: indicates the open lid of the Mk-41 style VLS canister launching a missile
4: indicates the exhaust of the missile being launched from the Mk-41 style VLS, note how it is vented to the central common exhaust shared by all the missile canisters in the 8 cell module
5: is the same as 1, only for the CCL VLS. The closed superior seal protects the missile from the exhaust emerging from around it through the CCL vent, as well as from the exhaust of the missile itself when it is propelled out of the canister
6: indicates the open lid of the CCL VLS canister launching a missile
7: indicates the exhaust of the missile being launched from the CCL VLS note how it is vented "around" the individual missile canister, and that there is no common exhaust to share
8: indicates the closed flame escape on the inferior side of the individual small missile canister for both the Mk-41 style VLS and the CCL VLS. They serve the purpose to prevent exhaust of adjacent missiles being launched from reaching the inside of their own individual small missile canister when closed, and when open they help to allow the exhaust to escape into the vent (common central vent for Mk-41 style VLS and single peripheral vent for CCL VLS)
9: indicates the opened flame escape for the small missile canisters which are launching missiles. Note how the adjacent flame escapes for other small canisters in the same quad pack are remaining closed to prevent the exhaust from entering the inside of those canisters.


And of course, the relative size of the lines and shapes are not wholly proportional but it's just meant to demonstrate what's going on. There are also a few lines which shouldn't have red, but they're not important to understanding the overall launch event, the labels are important to get what's going on.

Bltizo said:

I think you've misunderstood me; the exhaust would only be funneled outside the canister.
Referring back to my previous picture:

The black line is indicative of the cell wall of the VLS module which makes up the outer surface/hull of the exhaust. It is not part of the missile canister and is generally non-removable.
The red line is indicative of the missile canister wall which is removable, and it makes up the inner surface/hull of the exhaust.
The orange area between that, is the area/volume of the exhaust vent itself.
The grey circle represents the missile.

In practice, the entire venting apparatus can be considered the same as it is for Mk-41,only that instead of venting the exhaust to an adjacent single large rectangular opening, it vents the exhaust to a single "outline" opening around the missile canister itself.

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One problem, what keeps the canisters from tilting?
The idea is similar to mine which is basically a double hull structure but you'll need a lot of braces to keep the canister in place with your system and not very practical during reloading the canister with the braces in place.

SamuraiBlue said:

One problem, what keeps the canisters from tilting?
The idea is similar to mine which is basically a double hull structure but you'll need a lot of braces to keep the canister in place with your system and not very practical during reloading the canister with the braces in place.

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I envision that each missile canister comes with its own apparatus for the cell, but in practice only hot launch canisters will require their own braces.
It may make reloading take a little bit longer but it also depends on how well they design the cells, the canisters, and the braces. A simple design could result in only a very minor increase in complexity during reloading.

There are also other ways different to what you and I described for the actual canister/cell arrangement. One could be that the internal exhaust vent, and the braces, are left in the cell in a way which may be impractical to load and reload often, but that the actual missile canister itself can be slotted in and out of the space immediately within the internal exhaust. It will mean that the hot launch-ready cells will be limited to only a select few missile canister types, but substantially reduces reloading time and helps to keep the advantages of a CCL VLS where the exhaust is only limited to the individual cell rather than a common vent for 8 cells like in Mk-41.

There's lots of ways to go about to make it physically fit together, but this is all additional stuff to your original question about CCL VLS hot launching quad packed missiles, which I think I've provided an adequate and realistic answer to.