PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

vesicles said:

Since when did I say PLAN was completely faultless. You seem to have a tendency to put words in people's mouths. All I'm saying is it's too early to make any judgment. I'm simply arguing with you on the logic of your statements.

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If that was true, why continue to rebel against the idea of taking control of the situation as fast is possible. I do not think that it is too soon to make that judgment since a week has gone by and the China Daily has a news blackout on the story. Apparently, the leadership knows this looks bad and the Chinese have a habit of banning subjects that make them look bad. One does not have to look further that the rules of this forum to know that.

I stand by my logic as sound. I have referenced many of my assertions with links to the source when challenged, and I have yet to be proven that my sources are invalid. When I challenge others to source their claims, they do not respond or they go away. At least that is what I have noted from the Chinese apologists.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

vesicles said:

You made it sound like the rules of engagement is something top secret. Unless I'm a 4-star general, I would not have any means to know it. These things are mostly common sense things that one should be able to figure out.

About the ballistic missiles, I mean, what did that come from? the last time I checked, iraq is a great distance away from the US and ballistic missile was NOT involved.

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I'm afraid your logic is starting to come apart at the seams. The RULES OF ENGAGEMENT are NOT, by any means, common knowledge. I challenged you to site your source and you failed to do so, therefore it can be assumed you are just making things up from the top of your head.

Ballistic missiles are relevant in our argument. For instance, if there was a USN drone in the area of a ship being threatened by pirates, a missile frigate with ballitic missiles could conceivably obliterate the target from thousands of miles away. The commander on scene may only have moments to take action, and not have time to ask for permission first. This is what we mean by a modern navy.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:

If that was true, why continue to rebel against the idea of taking control of the situation as fast is possible. I do not think that it is too soon to make that judgment since a week has gone by and the China Daily has a news blackout on the story. Apparently, the leadership knows this looks bad and the Chinese have a habit of banning subjects that make them look bad. One does not have to look further that the rules of this forum to know that.

I stand by my logic as sound. I have referenced many of my assertions with links to the source when challenged, and I have yet to be proven that my sources are invalid. When I challenge others to source their claims, they do not respond or they go away. At least that is what I have noted from the Chinese apologists.

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"Chinese apologists" WOW, look who's labeling others? Once again, you like to put words in people's mouths. I've asked you several times to find those things that you claimed that I said. I challenge you: PLEASE, find the sentence or even words that even suggest that I am finding excuses for the PLA.

What you have listed are editorials reflecting the personal opinion of those who wrote them. You simply happen to agree with them. I do not see those as evidence/facts. Simply put, these are not reference. I am not showing any evidence against your claim simply because the situation is still on-going and any responsible journalist would not make any judgment on an incident that is still on-going. People are still waiting and see who things unfold.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:

I'm afraid your logic is starting to come apart at the seams. The RULES OF ENGAGEMENT are NOT, by any means, common knowledge. I challenged you to site your source and you failed to do so, therefore it can be assumed you are just making things up from the top of your head.

Ballistic missiles are relevant in our argument. For instance, if there was a USN drone in the area of a ship being threatened by pirates, a missile frigate with ballitic missiles could conceivably obliterate the target from thousands of miles away. The commander on scene may only have moments to take action, and not have time to ask for permission first. This is what we mean by a modern navy.

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A ballistic missile is NOT accurate enough to hit a moving target as small as a pirate ship. People are still arguing about whether a CVN can be threatened by a ballistic missile...

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

vesicles said:

A ballistic missile is NOT accurate enough to hit a moving target as small as a pirate ship. People are still arguing about whether a CVN can be threatened by a ballistic missile...

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Here is my source that proves otherwise.

If you are just going to argue that my links to my sources are invalid without giving credible evidence yourself, you fail completely. You have yet to link to any of your sources for your "common knowledge" assertions.

An Apologists is:

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

There should be a rule against idiocy...

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Gentlemen,

This is not WW2 era when communications took a while to reach its destination. We live in the era of satellites and the Internet. If the ship's captain felt that he should sail 1,000 nm off-course, he can pick up a satellite phone and call his superiors back home immediately.

How much leeway and initiative you want to give to your military is not an easy question to answer. For example, you want your aircraft pilots to be aggressive, but at the same time, you don't want them to collide with other nation's aircraft.

p.s. I'm not aware of any Frigates in PLAN or USN service armed with ballistic missiles. I think the Indian Navy has a couple test platforms.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:

Here is my source that proves otherwise.

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If you are just going to argue that my links to my sources are invalid without giving credible evidence yourself, you fail completely. You have yet to link to any of your sources for your "common knowledge" assertions.

An Apologists is:

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I'm not questioning the actual accuracy of the missile (I should've used my words more carefully). What I'm questioning is the ability of the missile to hit a moving target. A ship won't stay still and on the high sea, there is no pre-set course for it to travel. It would be almost impossible to hit a small ship moving at >30 knots in the ocean.

Anyways, unless you want to kill all the hostages, you leave your whatever missile at home.

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:

An Apologists is:

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OK, this is getting insulting...

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

adeptitus said:

Gentlemen,

This is not WW2 era when communications took a while to reach its destination. We live in the era of satellites and the Internet. If the ship's captain felt that he should sail 1,000 nm off-course, he can pick up a satellite phone and call his superiors back home immediately.

How much leeway and initiative you want to give to your military is not an easy question to answer. For example, you want your aircraft pilots to be aggressive, but at the same time, you don't want them to collide with other nation's aircraft.

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I agree that we do live in a era of instant communication. But the decision to pick up the phone in the first place lies with the commander. Using this phone analogy, if the commander is put on hold for an indefinite amount of time should he just sit there and wait or take action that he sees fit? I argue that USN commanders are selected for their ability to lead men and accomplish the mission.

It is also important to note that the line back to command headquarters might not always be there, especially in wartime conditions.