PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

hyalitemarine · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

vesicles said:
Wow, and you call yourself a supporter of free speech? As far as I know, this site is very objective since its members are from virtually every corner of the globe. Even if it is pro-China, what's wrong with Americans being pro-China? Your statement above sounds like Americans should not like China and Americans should not bash our great nation. I thought what makes this nation great and different from others is that we are allowed to criticize the govn't. And last time I heard, it is still legal to be an American and be friendly to China. There is nothing that anyone can and should do about it.

I went back and looked at all the posts in this particular thread and found no bashing of Americans as well as any other nationalities. Mostly simply stating the facts. If you have, please enlighten us. A number of posters, including me, have a little bit of problem with your position because, IMHO, your argument is based on illogical assumptions, fictional situations and lack of general knowledge of things. This is to me a normal process of arguing a point. If you feel that your position is absolutely the truth and shall not be challenged, then what is the point of arguing it?

As I said previously, lets debate subjects point by point. Anyone here can review what was said anytime and some will agree with your point of view and some with mine. When I site my sources, I give the news org and date and time. People opposing my facts HAVE NOT been sourcing their counter points. From now on, I shall take the extra step and simply include then links.

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The links are supporting arguments for location of ships; authority to chase down pirates on Somali waters and land, and the China Daily website that has not mentioned the De Xin Hai hijacking since October 22.

And, pray tell me, why do people think I am anti-Chinese? Criticism of China's Somali fiasco does NOT equate to anti-Chinese feelings. Criticize US policy, sure why not, but to gloat in the deaths of human beings is disgusting.

hyalitemarine · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

bladerunner said:
Its been repeated ad nauseum, that the opportunity for a rambo type of rescue mission was never there or had passed. Now thanks to the Amercians, in shooting the pirates while good faith negotiations/ (doublecross?) were under way,thus resulting in it being extremely hazardous to make contact in person with doubly wary pirates. Perhaps not so clever after all?.

"Good Faith Negotiations" is predicated upon lawful behavior. Since the Somali pirates hijacked a US Ship with Americans on it, thus initiating hostilities, all "good faith" was thrown out the window the moment those pirates violently boarded the ship. If the Somali pirates believed US forces were going to aid and abed pirates, they were dead wrong.

Somali pirates are employing evil tactics, and the point can be argued that one does not negotiate with evil, you defeat it. If the Somali pirates feel the need to continue using threats of deadly force, no one should cry for them when deadly force is visited upon them.

American policy was effective in freeing the American ship and saving all the American crew. Sounds clever to me.

bladerunner · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
The links are supporting arguments for location of ships; authority to chase down pirates on Somali waters and land, and the China Daily website that has not mentioned the De Xin Hai hijacking since October 22.

And, pray tell me, why do people think I am anti-Chinese? Criticism of China's Somali fiasco does NOT equate to anti-Chinese feelings. Criticize US policy, sure why not, but to gloat in the deaths of human beings is disgusting.

So it appears you have a issue , with the fact that the Chinese did not follow through with their reputed courses of action as outlined in their dailys. So whats wrong with realising in the harsh light of day that a rethink was necssary. The conclusions of which have led to this current course of action or inaction as you see it.

bladerunner · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
"Good Faith Negotiations" is predicated upon lawful behavior. Since the Somali pirates hijacked a US Ship with Americans on it, thus initiating hostilities, all "good faith" was thrown out the window the moment those pirates violently boarded the ship. If the Somali pirates believed US forces were going to aid and abed pirates, they were dead wrong.

Somali pirates are employing evil tactics, and the point can be argued that one does not negotiate with evil, you defeat it. If the Somali pirates feel the need to continue using threats of deadly force, no one should cry for them when deadly force is visited upon them.

American policy was effective in freeing the American ship and saving all the American crew. Sounds clever to me.

Now the stakes have been raised. Before then the hostages lives were never at any emminent threat of being lost. In fact they were reasonably well treated when compared with a different type of hostage situation that Im sure you are well aware of.

hyalitemarine · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

bladerunner said:
So it appears you have a issue , with the fact that the Chinese did not follow through with their reputed courses of action as outlined in their dailys. So whats wrong with realising in the harsh light of day, that a rethink was necssary, the conclusions of which have led to this current course of action or inaction as you see it.

My critique of Chinese naval tactics is that they lost a valuable opportunity in not taking control of the situation. If the Chinese ships immediately raced down the Somali coast, they stood a good chance, albeit a slim one, but a chance non-the-less, to deny the hijacked ship access to the pirates liar.

BY allowing the hijacked ship to rule events by going to shore, it will now be a extremely long and difficult situation to free not only the ship, but also the hostages, which will be dispersed deep into the hinterlands of a lawless state. The Somali pirates now have little to fear from a Chinese Navy as long as they keep changing tactics and move quicker than the Chinese naval bureaucracy.

hyalitemarine · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

bladerunner said:
Now the stakes have been raised. Before then the hostages lives were never at any emminent threat of being lost. In fact they were reasonably well treated when compared with a different type of hostage situation that Im sure you are well aware of.

I do not buy into the rhetoric that before the US Rescue hostage lives were safe. An example:
The Taiwanese fishing vessel was hijacked on May 28, 2007. The surviving crew of 10 Chinese, two Taiwanese and two Filipino crew members was released on November 5 after spending more than six months in captivity. One Chinese crew member was killed by the pirates on May 28 because the ship's owners failed to meet their ransom demands

here's the source with more deadly hijackings.

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vesicles · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
And, pray tell me, why do people think I am anti-Chinese? Criticism of China's Somali fiasco does NOT equate to anti-Chinese feelings. Criticize US policy, sure why not, but to gloat in the deaths of human beings is disgusting.

Hmmm... who said you are anti-Chinese? According to what you said in a previous post, Americans cannot be pro-China and if this site continue to be "pro-China", you will inform the owner of this site and "do something about it". So my interpretation of your logic is as stated in my post above. I was simply pointing out how illogical your statement is. In no where in my post that I mentioned anything about your political view on China. I don't see how you can interpret it as a labeling of you as "anti-Chinese". Please enlighten me with your line of logic.

Oh yeah, please do not imagine things...

hyalitemarine said:
to gloat in the deaths of human beings is disgusting.

Where did this come from??? You sure you are not smoking anything??

bladerunner · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
If the Chinese ships immediately raced down the Somali coast, they stood a good chance, albeit a slim one, but a chance non-the-less, to deny the hijacked ship access to the pirates liar.

BY allowing the hijacked ship to rule events by going to shore, it will now be a extremely long and difficult situation to free not only the ship, but also the hostages, which will be dispersed deep into the hinterlands of a lawless state. The Somali pirates now have little to fear from a Chinese Navy as long as they keep changing tactics and move quicker than the Chinese naval bureaucracy.

Previous posters have pointed out that these escort duties were missions in co-operation with other countries, and rather than being hindered by a bureaucracy back home , they could have been involved in other pre established duties for that time period. What would it have looked like if they went haring off, and thus leave the ships they were engaged to look after , being hijacked?

vesicles · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
If the Chinese ships immediately raced down the Somali coast, they stood a good chance, albeit a slim one, but a chance non-the-less, to deny the hijacked ship access to the pirates liar.

What about their responsibility of escorting other ships in the region. Like I said before, abandoning post for your own selfish needs is not the most professional behavior people want to see from anyone.

hyalitemarine · Oct 28, 2009

Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

vesicles said:
What about their responsibility of escorting other ships in the region. Like I said before, abandoning post for your own selfish needs is not the most professional behavior people want to see from anyone.

The escorting of convoys is a multinational one, that means there are SEVERAL multi-national ships in the area that can easily plug the gap. The reason all those warships are there is to protect shipping from pirates. Their mission does not say, "Oh, if a pirate is on the other side of this line then ignore it.".

What is not professional is not adapting to unforeseen circumstances. So if a Chinese ship was ordered to guard a harbor on point A, while an enemy attack at point B only a few miles away, by your logic, it would "abandoning your post" if that ship went to aid in the "B" battle. Therein lies the difference between US policy and Chinese policy. Americans would most likely adapt to the situation and take initiative and not wait for orders and join the B battle. The Chinese, it seems, would sit still, since that was their orders.

If you think robotic control is a good thing in a tactical environment, you are entitled to that belief.

PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

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