PLAN Anti-Piracy Deployments

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ravenshield936

Banned Idiot
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
I stand by the facts. Fact, the De Xin Hai was about 700 miles off the east coast of Somalia and 350 miles north of the Seychelles. That position means it was approximately 700 miles from the Chinese naval vessels which were in the Gulf of Aden area. That is definitely NOT "thousands" of miles away. Furthermore, since the distance the freighter had to travel to the pirate liar was a co-equal distance to the Chinese warships, one would logically assume that the modern Chinese Navy ships possessed enough speed to intercept a fully laden coal freighter before it reached shore.
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the difference is that the PLAN aren't there to chase down pirates, but to send them away. killing priates and actively hunting them is NEVER the primary goal. this sets the "handicap" if u want to call it, because the pirates can choose who they want to attack.

also the PLAN has deployed a rather very microbe amount of force to the region. it's not that big of a force mind you, not to mention it's barely enough of a real presence to protect the amount of ships entering the risk zones daily. so please keep that in mind instead of expecting magical things to occur.

however lastly what PLAN indeed lacks will be experience. lastly the PLAN are better in blowing stuff up and killing enemies than to rescue
 
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bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

RedMercury said:
Obvious flamebait is obvious.:coffee:
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More than likely,

but I wonder if the PLA Officer in the field, is given some leeway in deciding on a course of action in comparison to his Western counterpart, however if one looks at all the checklist the Nato forces in Afghanistan must go through in deciding whether to return fire when attacked must be frustrating.
 
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pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
I stand by the facts. Fact, the De Xin Hai was about 700 miles off the east coast of Somalia and 350 miles north of the Seychelles. That position means it was approximately 700 miles from the Chinese naval vessels which were in the Gulf of Aden area. That is definitely NOT "thousands" of miles away. Furthermore, since the distance the freighter had to travel to the pirate liar was a co-equal distance to the Chinese warships, one would logically assume that the modern Chinese Navy ships possessed enough speed to intercept a fully laden coal freighter before it reached shore.
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actually those units are nautical miles,and it was 550 nautical miles from seychelles. but anyways you have the wrong info, the Chinese fleet was 1080 nautical miles away from where the incident took place not 700 nautical miles,and chasing the freighter isnt simply getting from one point in the water to another. so get your facts straight.
 
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Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

NATO navies currently operating in the area are also showing considerable restraint since a further escalation in the region is strategically not desirable even if that means letting sometimes gangsters doing their dirty work.

Only the French made recently a gung-ho rescue raid and killed during the action several pirates, even recovering most of the ransom money (...may be there were some twittery nest eggs hidden in the stash!:rolleyes:). However the French military has an enormous experience in any kind of military intervention in Africa and having a base in nearby Djibouti is also certainly helpful. Other NATO allies would be hard pressed to pull off a similar stunt.

PLAN's rules of engagement are probably strictly limited by Beijing since the leadership does not want to irritate any African states for fear of being viewed by their new partners as a newly emerging ´bully on the block´. China is carefully and steadily harnessing a strategic partnership with Sub-Sahara African states and this interest trumps any consideration about fighting some despicable gangsters. Therefore PLAN has simply order for not pursuing pirates into Somali territorial waters.
 
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hyalitemarine

hyalitemarine

Banned Idiot
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Actually, I am glad this thread is going again since the whole purpose of this website is to discuss the Chinese military. Yes the Chinese military is growing and has some amazing equipment, but what I question, unabashedly, is whether Chinese structural doctrine is capable to engage in real world modern combat. This pirate situation is a perfect example of asymmetric modern warfare.

Chinese vessels actually have TWO commanders, one commander is military, the other commander is political. Guess which commander has greater clout? Ever see the Tom Clancy movie "The Hunt for Red October"? That movie, although Hollywood, does give us an idea of how crippling political commanders can be when quick responses are required.

I personally doubt China's task force in the Gulf of Aden was anything more than a Dog & Pony show. In fact, I am actually impressed that the Chinese Navy has been able to stay on station so long without putting into port for personnel and repairs.
 
PiSigma

PiSigma

"the engineer"
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
Actually, I am glad this thread is going again since the whole purpose of this website is to discuss the Chinese military. Yes the Chinese military is growing and has some amazing equipment, but what I question, unabashedly, is whether Chinese structural doctrine is capable to engage in real world modern combat. This pirate situation is a perfect example of asymmetric modern warfare.

Chinese vessels actually have TWO commanders, one commander is military, the other commander is political. Guess which commander has greater clout? Ever see the Tom Clancy movie "The Hunt for Red October"? That movie, although Hollywood, does give us an idea of how crippling political commanders can be when quick responses are required.

I personally doubt China's task force in the Gulf of Aden was anything more than a Dog & Pony show. In fact, I am actually impressed that the Chinese Navy has been able to stay on station so long without putting into port for personnel and repairs.
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I think you misunderstood the principle of the military commander and political commisar. The Military command is the leader for military matters, ie operations. Where the political commisar is there for everyday matters, ie moral and daily operations on ship such as food, entertainment, education. And please don't use Tom Clancy books/movies as references to military matters, Tom Clancy is considered mostly fantasy and extremely unrealistic.
 
hyalitemarine

hyalitemarine

Banned Idiot
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

PiSigma said:
I think you misunderstood the principle of the military commander and political commisar. The Military command is the leader for military matters, ie operations. Where the political commisar is there for everyday matters, ie moral and daily operations on ship such as food, entertainment, education. And please don't use Tom Clancy books/movies as references to military matters, Tom Clancy is considered mostly fantasy and extremely unrealistic.
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No, actually my source was the 2007 US Navy report referenced here in this forum. It states the commanders' roles pretty clearly. And as far as the Tom Clancy reference, I said it was Hollywood AND I shall reference whatever works I see fit. It is not up to you and it is not up to me to command what others may think and say. Stay on topic and re-frame from personal attacks.
 
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Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

hyalitemarine said:
This pirate situation is a perfect example of asymmetric modern warfare.
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Asymmetric warfare is a very nasty thing, Taliban are currently teaching the US Army a bloody lesson in Afghanistan. The latest rumors have it that US troops have been ordered by General McChrystal to evacuate Nuristan province, apparently more lessons will follow soon.:D
 
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hyalitemarine

hyalitemarine

Banned Idiot
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

pla101prc said:
actually those units are nautical miles,and it was 550 nautical miles from seychelles. but anyways you have the wrong info, the Chinese fleet was 1080 nautical miles away from where the incident took place not 700 nautical miles,and chasing the freighter isnt simply getting from one point in the water to another. so get your facts straight.
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My sources are Reuters, Tuesday October 20 2009 for the ship locations and Associated Press UNITED NATIONS (AP) Dec 17, 2008 for the UN resolution, where do your facts come from?
 
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pla101prc

Senior Member
Re: Somali pirates and Chinese navy

Violet Oboe said:
NATO navies currently operating in the area are also showing considerable restraint since a further escalation in the region is strategically not desirable even if that means letting sometimes gangsters doing their dirty work.

Only the French made recently a gung-ho rescue raid and killed during the action several pirates, even recovering most of the ransom money (...may be there were some twittery nest eggs hidden in the stash!:rolleyes:). However the French military has an enourmous experience in any kind of military intervention in Africa and having a base in nearby Djibouti is also certainly helpful. Other NATO allies would be hard pressed to pull off a similar stunt.

PLAN's rules of engagement are probably strictly limited by Beijing since the leadership does not want to irritate any African states for fear of being viewed by their new partners as a newly emerging ´bully on the block´. China is carefully and steadily harnessing a strategic partnership with Sub-Sahara African states and this interest trumps any consideration about fighting some despicable gangsters. Therefore PLAN has simply order for not pursuing pirates into Somali territorial waters.
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for the spec ops taking over a ship without bringing harm to hostages is harder than doing it on a plane. these freighters are huge in size and have many compartments, its difficult to locate where the hostage and the pirates are from the outside, and the inside of the freighter is quite dark as well. its like urban ops,cept you are going through a million houses trying to find a bunch of hostages before the dude standing right behind them squeeze the trigger...
 
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