PLAN Amphibious assault capability
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tunneling to taiwan - it's a nice joke :rofl:
there are nearly 200 km to cross the Taiwan-Street under the sea
Seikan-Tunnel, Japan, is 53,9 km,
Eurotunnel, GB/F is 49,94 km,
Gotthard-Basictunnel will become 57 km
and they worked from both ends or additional by central shafts, if possible (like Gotthardt)
there are nearly 200 km to cross the Taiwan-Street under the sea
Seikan-Tunnel, Japan, is 53,9 km,
Eurotunnel, GB/F is 49,94 km,
Gotthard-Basictunnel will become 57 km
and they worked from both ends or additional by central shafts, if possible (like Gotthardt)
Last edited:
Neutral Zone
Junior Member
Slightly off tangent but related to amphibious assault. Anyone think China tunneling to Taiwan would work?
I think there was a thread on that around here once!
It's something straight out of a B-movie. You couldn't conceal all the tunnelling activity and your tunnell boring machines would show up on seismographs.
Yea, there was a thread on that here once...maybe this is all a Ministry of State Security plot and tthey are tunneling to Taiwan and they want to know how much of a suprise it will be when they pop out of the tunnel.
petty officer1
Junior Member
thanks to our "KGB"s like you and golly....
ff interesting.... but I personally think a beach invasion is in a way, not nessary...
a blockade around taiwan is a better idea. IF taiwan do so called "separtion to the motherland". blockade and a small invasion of matsu, some small missle attack will cause chaos in taiwan. stock market, business... you name it since PRC haven't INVADE taiwan mainland, it can buy time for china plan up ahead stadegy. Confusion is the key. take out my country's factor(US).
some people probally will argue china need a quick war, but now... PLA, PLAN, PLAAF's strenth is just not strong enough... let lone a war against a enemy who have a short supply line and concentrated military defence.
joshuatree
Captain
Actually the closest points are 130 km. But I do believe tunneling with any boring machine will definitely be picked up by seismographs. I wonder how deep is the Taiwan Strait? Perhaps some sort of covert submerging and laying of concrete tubes much like how a cut and cover method works. In the end, I know this suggestion is unrealistic but talk about element of surprise. I mean, the Viet Cong dug miles and miles of tunnel right beneath the enemy at times.
I think we all forgot 1 factor here: all the workers will probably die digging halfway into the tunnel. Why? Oxygen.
Actually, it's not going to happen because of this. The VC can easily get O2 from lifting a bush. Doing it under there and you will have a gigantic plumber problem to explain to everyone.....
Actually, it's not going to happen because of this. The VC can easily get O2 from lifting a bush. Doing it under there and you will have a gigantic plumber problem to explain to everyone.....
szbd
Junior Member
I think currently PRC does not have the ability to occupy taiwan in a short time is widely recognized. Most of the imagination plans on this task in Chinese forums assume a tremendous boost of some platforms' number.
As for the PLAN amphibious assault capability, though I'm a strong pro China military fan, I do think there is no chance for PRC force to hold a reasonable beach head for the time being.
The main PLAN amphibious assault vessels are simply outdated for a first wave attack. There are only some of them useful to sending the reinforcement under a low hostile fire condition. Currently, there's barely any countable measure to send a efficient force to the beach head in the first wave.
I think the first wave should be amphibious assault vihecles. Any ship directly go on to the shore is too vulnerable to enemy fire. Amphibious assault vihecles can lose too but it's relatively hard to kill a large portion of them in a short time.
PRC has very good amphibious assault vihecles now and in large number. But it seriously lack of the ships to carry and release them into water. Some LSTs can but can only carry a small number. There's only one LPD right now and not in service yet. So first wave, just a little more than nothing. Direct air support is a must of course. Also we need quite some 054As to protect the LPDs from land based AShW missiles and air attack.
Second wave, I think about two types. The main part is as soon as the first wave secures a small area of beach head, more powerful force is needed to be sent up in a short time. It should be fast, highly loaded and directly to the beach head. Zubr is ideal, we need A LOT OF them!! They are fast, can load quite some heavy armors, with good protection and excellent fire power. But now we have none and nothing similar.
Another type is helicopters, they can send troops to enemy's weak rear or flank. Currently there are only less than 200 mi17 and Z8 capable of this and they are spreaded all over the army. Well we can't count on helicopter landing too much anyway. Because there could be no week rear or flank at all, and even if there were, you need super good intelligence to find them. Plus the helis can only send soilders with only some light weapons and you need to worry about their supply. So second wave, nothing.
The third wave and following on, I think should be large number of reinforcement with more troops, equiments and supply. Hopefully the first two waves can secure a large enough beach head for organizing a large force and distribute supply. Now we finally have something to use.
PLAN has quite some LSTs and LCMs. They are basically the same thing, just LSTs are bigger in size and can carry and send out AAVs. I think only those big LSTs with 18knt speed are useful. Others can only attack islands close to mainland shore. The current number of these capable ships may not be enough to load the supply for the first two waves. Also we need engineering equipments, artilaries, trucks, etc. require big ships to load them. Maybe a system of fuel supply need to be setup. So third wave, something but far from enough.
If we use these LSTs as first wave it will be suicide. I don't think this need to be explained.
For air superiority mentioned a lot in this thread, I have a rather optimistic view. Only BM is not enough, but I think China has and can produce a lot of cruiser missiles. A CM can also carry a several hundreds kg warhead.
I think the key should be suppression. When a lot of PLAAF planes flying in the sky very close to taiwan with the support of a few KJ2000, it will be very hard for ROCAF to take off and fight. So what we need to do is keep forcing ROCAF stay on the ground.
The first wave should be missiles attack in the priority sequence as 1) C3I and communication facilities, 2) radar stations, 3) airfields, 4) ROCAF's logistics centers (if no sufficient intelligence on this then forget it).
Most of the missiles will be used on airfields. It's impossible to totally destroy an airfield with a few missiles. What we need is to damage one or more of these things: runway, planes, fuel tank, ware house, command tower, any useful facility. Just make some damage hopefully enough to delay the take off for 1 or 2 hours.
Some missiles can be used on AAD bateries as well, if we have enough, otherwise use WS2. The idea is still suppression, just reduce their functions by creating chaos, affect the morale, destroy something, etc.
At the same time the PLAAF will conduct massive strike hopefully without significant risistence. The goal is to accurately attack the targets mentioned above. A DEAD team is needed to take care of ROC's AAD strength.
If above all are successful, then PLAAF will have the air superiority from this time on. It can keep a fleet (even J7 and J8, upgraded versions of course, can be useful now, with the support of KJ2000) to dominate the sky and others to attack ground targets, and the amphibious assult can begin.
If ROCAF are all in the sky before these attacks, use WS2 to attack their airfields, and launch the above attacks after their landing. Or just simply wait for their landing.
WS2 can be an essential issue to suppress the airfields, when at a certain time we are not sure if it worthy to attack them, to save the expensive missiles and planes. So it is used to attack the airfields or other large and vulnerable targets from time to time. WS2 can not do the job as good as the missiles and planes but there will be no problem to have countless number of these rockets, and if one of them got the luck to hit an F16 on the ground then it well worth the money.
BTW, is it possible for missiles and rockets to carry some kind of submunitions or even mines to boost the effect of airfield attack?
I'm not saying ROCAF will not have a single plane in the sky from the beginning to the end, nor their ground facilities can be totally destructed in the first few hours. My idea is keep fireing on them when they are on the ground. The numerical advantage of PLAAF can be trippled from the beginning and the turn point will soon be reached. Even if not that smooth, the ROCAF can only try to defence themselves for a period of time and can not attack PRC targets nor protect ROC ground and sea targets.
So what ROC should do is to produce a large number of land based AShW missiles and cruiser missiles. So that they can attack PRC's land and sea targets without ROCAF and big ground facilities.
I just don't understand why they spent so much money on the navy with ridiculous prices.
As for the PLAN amphibious assault capability, though I'm a strong pro China military fan, I do think there is no chance for PRC force to hold a reasonable beach head for the time being.
The main PLAN amphibious assault vessels are simply outdated for a first wave attack. There are only some of them useful to sending the reinforcement under a low hostile fire condition. Currently, there's barely any countable measure to send a efficient force to the beach head in the first wave.
I think the first wave should be amphibious assault vihecles. Any ship directly go on to the shore is too vulnerable to enemy fire. Amphibious assault vihecles can lose too but it's relatively hard to kill a large portion of them in a short time.
PRC has very good amphibious assault vihecles now and in large number. But it seriously lack of the ships to carry and release them into water. Some LSTs can but can only carry a small number. There's only one LPD right now and not in service yet. So first wave, just a little more than nothing. Direct air support is a must of course. Also we need quite some 054As to protect the LPDs from land based AShW missiles and air attack.
Second wave, I think about two types. The main part is as soon as the first wave secures a small area of beach head, more powerful force is needed to be sent up in a short time. It should be fast, highly loaded and directly to the beach head. Zubr is ideal, we need A LOT OF them!! They are fast, can load quite some heavy armors, with good protection and excellent fire power. But now we have none and nothing similar.
Another type is helicopters, they can send troops to enemy's weak rear or flank. Currently there are only less than 200 mi17 and Z8 capable of this and they are spreaded all over the army. Well we can't count on helicopter landing too much anyway. Because there could be no week rear or flank at all, and even if there were, you need super good intelligence to find them. Plus the helis can only send soilders with only some light weapons and you need to worry about their supply. So second wave, nothing.
The third wave and following on, I think should be large number of reinforcement with more troops, equiments and supply. Hopefully the first two waves can secure a large enough beach head for organizing a large force and distribute supply. Now we finally have something to use.
PLAN has quite some LSTs and LCMs. They are basically the same thing, just LSTs are bigger in size and can carry and send out AAVs. I think only those big LSTs with 18knt speed are useful. Others can only attack islands close to mainland shore. The current number of these capable ships may not be enough to load the supply for the first two waves. Also we need engineering equipments, artilaries, trucks, etc. require big ships to load them. Maybe a system of fuel supply need to be setup. So third wave, something but far from enough.
If we use these LSTs as first wave it will be suicide. I don't think this need to be explained.
For air superiority mentioned a lot in this thread, I have a rather optimistic view. Only BM is not enough, but I think China has and can produce a lot of cruiser missiles. A CM can also carry a several hundreds kg warhead.
I think the key should be suppression. When a lot of PLAAF planes flying in the sky very close to taiwan with the support of a few KJ2000, it will be very hard for ROCAF to take off and fight. So what we need to do is keep forcing ROCAF stay on the ground.
The first wave should be missiles attack in the priority sequence as 1) C3I and communication facilities, 2) radar stations, 3) airfields, 4) ROCAF's logistics centers (if no sufficient intelligence on this then forget it).
Most of the missiles will be used on airfields. It's impossible to totally destroy an airfield with a few missiles. What we need is to damage one or more of these things: runway, planes, fuel tank, ware house, command tower, any useful facility. Just make some damage hopefully enough to delay the take off for 1 or 2 hours.
Some missiles can be used on AAD bateries as well, if we have enough, otherwise use WS2. The idea is still suppression, just reduce their functions by creating chaos, affect the morale, destroy something, etc.
At the same time the PLAAF will conduct massive strike hopefully without significant risistence. The goal is to accurately attack the targets mentioned above. A DEAD team is needed to take care of ROC's AAD strength.
If above all are successful, then PLAAF will have the air superiority from this time on. It can keep a fleet (even J7 and J8, upgraded versions of course, can be useful now, with the support of KJ2000) to dominate the sky and others to attack ground targets, and the amphibious assult can begin.
If ROCAF are all in the sky before these attacks, use WS2 to attack their airfields, and launch the above attacks after their landing. Or just simply wait for their landing.
WS2 can be an essential issue to suppress the airfields, when at a certain time we are not sure if it worthy to attack them, to save the expensive missiles and planes. So it is used to attack the airfields or other large and vulnerable targets from time to time. WS2 can not do the job as good as the missiles and planes but there will be no problem to have countless number of these rockets, and if one of them got the luck to hit an F16 on the ground then it well worth the money.
BTW, is it possible for missiles and rockets to carry some kind of submunitions or even mines to boost the effect of airfield attack?
I'm not saying ROCAF will not have a single plane in the sky from the beginning to the end, nor their ground facilities can be totally destructed in the first few hours. My idea is keep fireing on them when they are on the ground. The numerical advantage of PLAAF can be trippled from the beginning and the turn point will soon be reached. Even if not that smooth, the ROCAF can only try to defence themselves for a period of time and can not attack PRC targets nor protect ROC ground and sea targets.
So what ROC should do is to produce a large number of land based AShW missiles and cruiser missiles. So that they can attack PRC's land and sea targets without ROCAF and big ground facilities.
I just don't understand why they spent so much money on the navy with ridiculous prices.
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Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If China is willing to, they could defeat Taiwan in a few hours.
To act like China would have to get in some long protracted war just shows that we've lived in a society where the reality of war has been completely deteriorated from the common state of mind.
If anyone has learned anything from recent events it is that air power can achieve far more than land forces. Back in World War II air power had nowhere near the capabilities to support ground forces. In modern warfare, control over the skies essentially determines the victor, providing the power in control of the air uses that control effectively.
China currently has all the needed firepower to ensure dominance of the air, which means China can guarantee its own victory, assuming they go about it the right way.
I think by 2010 there will be little chance for Taiwan to have any success against China.
To act like China would have to get in some long protracted war just shows that we've lived in a society where the reality of war has been completely deteriorated from the common state of mind.
If anyone has learned anything from recent events it is that air power can achieve far more than land forces. Back in World War II air power had nowhere near the capabilities to support ground forces. In modern warfare, control over the skies essentially determines the victor, providing the power in control of the air uses that control effectively.
China currently has all the needed firepower to ensure dominance of the air, which means China can guarantee its own victory, assuming they go about it the right way.
I think by 2010 there will be little chance for Taiwan to have any success against China.
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