PLAAF air disaster
- Thread starter DPRKPTboat
- Start date
Reports: Crashed Chinese Craft a Spy Plane
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN
.c The Associated Press
SHANGHAI, China (AP) - A Chinese military plane that crashed, killing all 40 people aboard, was a surveillance aircraft carrying nearly three dozen electronics experts, two Beijing-backed newspapers reported.
A Defense Ministry spokesman said Tuesday he had no new information on Sunday's crash, which the government says is being investigated under direct orders from Chinese President Hu Jintao.
Hu's order and the dispatch of a top general to head the investigation have prompted speculation the crashed plane was of special significance to Beijing.
An official with the local government in Guangde county where the plane went down refused to give any details on the crash or recovery efforts. Neither official would give his name, as is common among Chinese bureaucrats.
The newspaper Ta Kung Pao, published in Hong Kong, on Monday said the crash was the People's Liberation Army's worst aviation disaster. That was impossible to confirm due to the intense secrecy surrounding China's military.
The paper said 35 of those killed were electronics experts and that the five other victims were the plane's crew.
If true, the crash could mark a serious setback to China's attempts to develop greater self-sufficiency in high-tech armaments for which it is now heavily dependent on Russia and other foreign suppliers.
A similar report was carried by another Beijing-supported paper based in Hong Kong, Wen Wei Po. Such publications have access to official Chinese sources, which sometimes use them to release sensitive information indirectly.
The newspapers didn't identify the source of their information or give the exact model of aircraft, although Ta Kung Pao ran an accompanying article discussing the KJ-2000, an early warning aircraft, or AWACS, that uses a Russian airframe but is outfitted with powerful homemade radars and electronic sensors.
The planes are reportedly undergoing testing in Nanjing, a city about 93 miles north of the crash site. China is also test flying a range of other AWACS and electronics warfare aircraft as a key component of military modernization.
The appointment as lead investigator of Gen. Guo Boxiong, the vice chairman of the Communist Party commission overseeing the military, suggests the crash ``wasn't just an ordinary military transport plane that went down,'' said Robert Karniol, Asia-Pacific editor for Jane's Defense Weekly.
Villagers contacted by telephone said they heard a boom and then saw thick black smoke billowing from the crash site amid bamboo forests about 125 miles southwest of Shanghai.
Wreckage and bodies were strewn over the area, the villagers said.
State media has reported few details about the accident, other than to say a military plane crashed in Anhui province, where Guangde is located, killing 40 people.
Such accidents usually go unreported by the Chinese media, although the 2003 announcement of a submarine accident that killed 70 sailors appeared to mark a step toward greater openness.
However, the tendency toward secrecy remains strong. Three years after the submarine accident, its cause and exact location have never been made public.
06/06/06 10:15 EDT
Fumanchu
This is a big tragedy and blow for PLA, but I doubt it would affect overall Chinese military modernization. Eventhough I tended to agree that Y-8 would be more likely, but I don't rule out others possiblities.
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN
.c The Associated Press
SHANGHAI, China (AP) - A Chinese military plane that crashed, killing all 40 people aboard, was a surveillance aircraft carrying nearly three dozen electronics experts, two Beijing-backed newspapers reported.
A Defense Ministry spokesman said Tuesday he had no new information on Sunday's crash, which the government says is being investigated under direct orders from Chinese President Hu Jintao.
Hu's order and the dispatch of a top general to head the investigation have prompted speculation the crashed plane was of special significance to Beijing.
An official with the local government in Guangde county where the plane went down refused to give any details on the crash or recovery efforts. Neither official would give his name, as is common among Chinese bureaucrats.
The newspaper Ta Kung Pao, published in Hong Kong, on Monday said the crash was the People's Liberation Army's worst aviation disaster. That was impossible to confirm due to the intense secrecy surrounding China's military.
The paper said 35 of those killed were electronics experts and that the five other victims were the plane's crew.
If true, the crash could mark a serious setback to China's attempts to develop greater self-sufficiency in high-tech armaments for which it is now heavily dependent on Russia and other foreign suppliers.
A similar report was carried by another Beijing-supported paper based in Hong Kong, Wen Wei Po. Such publications have access to official Chinese sources, which sometimes use them to release sensitive information indirectly.
The newspapers didn't identify the source of their information or give the exact model of aircraft, although Ta Kung Pao ran an accompanying article discussing the KJ-2000, an early warning aircraft, or AWACS, that uses a Russian airframe but is outfitted with powerful homemade radars and electronic sensors.
The planes are reportedly undergoing testing in Nanjing, a city about 93 miles north of the crash site. China is also test flying a range of other AWACS and electronics warfare aircraft as a key component of military modernization.
The appointment as lead investigator of Gen. Guo Boxiong, the vice chairman of the Communist Party commission overseeing the military, suggests the crash ``wasn't just an ordinary military transport plane that went down,'' said Robert Karniol, Asia-Pacific editor for Jane's Defense Weekly.
Villagers contacted by telephone said they heard a boom and then saw thick black smoke billowing from the crash site amid bamboo forests about 125 miles southwest of Shanghai.
Wreckage and bodies were strewn over the area, the villagers said.
State media has reported few details about the accident, other than to say a military plane crashed in Anhui province, where Guangde is located, killing 40 people.
Such accidents usually go unreported by the Chinese media, although the 2003 announcement of a submarine accident that killed 70 sailors appeared to mark a step toward greater openness.
However, the tendency toward secrecy remains strong. Three years after the submarine accident, its cause and exact location have never been made public.
06/06/06 10:15 EDT
Fumanchu
Do you really think that China would abandon to invade Taiwan for mere setback of one military project? The person suggested this kind of nonsense should know better.
Actually most HK newspapers didn't mentioned KJ-2000, it is mostly Western newspapers drawed their own conclusion. Of course HK newspapers are not a reliable source for Chinese military, they basicly had no insider connection to PLA.
This is a big tragedy and blow for PLA, but I doubt it would affect overall Chinese military modernization. Eventhough I tended to agree that Y-8 would be more likely, but I don't rule out others possiblities.
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
KYli said:
I never said China would do such a thing! I was musing whether a set-back on its AWACS programme that meant it didn't have suitable equipment when it had to make a decision could lead it to decide not to attack. After all there are scenarios in which China may consider "finding" justification for attacking Taiwan. That would be less likely if it felt certain systems weren't up to scratch. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I implied if it had any effect it would be very slight.
KYli, I'm getting a bit tired of having to explain my posts to you. Ask me to clarify next time rather than start criticising me, as you so often do when you don't read my posts carefully enough.
EDIT: Ok, DF, no problem. KYli, I'm always happy to talk with you - thanks for your response.
Last edited by a moderator:
I did asked you to clarify, but if you think I was criticizing you then I apologized.FuManChu said:
The thing is I do understand your posts, but I don't agree with them. You often accuse me for not reading your posts, but most of times it was mere difference of opinions and your refusing to acknowledge my POV. My response might be misleading, but I was saying even if China doesn't have the necessary equipments in time of conflict. China could still make the decision to attack Taiwan. These scenarios in which China may consider finding justification for attacking Taiwan could have only happened many many years later, so China would probably is really very ready by then.
Fumanchu, I am also tired to debate with you, when you are trying to pick on 'words' and my english skill. I should avoid to ever response to you, so we could peacefully co-exist in this forum. It should not be difficult, since I am not active anymore. Peace
.If you are both tired, please stop here. DF
Last edited by a moderator:
I will make my obligatory comment, copied from AFM
"I love all the Way these guys are trying to imply it's KJ-2000, when their main source is Andrei Pinkov of Kanwa. lol, never mind the fact that the Chinese gov't has declared it's a Y-8 transport that crashed. Never mind the fact that KJ-2000 is never stationned at Anhui. The question is what type of Y-8 is this? The answer is that it doesn't really matter. If it is a Y-8 testbed, then another one can be built. If there is any major loss, it's the lives of some of the engineers. But then again, I'm sure lab 38 can overcome this.
Another thing you have to keep in mind is that KJ-2000's radar system is developed by lab 14, so this crash has absolutely no effect on that program."
"I love all the Way these guys are trying to imply it's KJ-2000, when their main source is Andrei Pinkov of Kanwa. lol, never mind the fact that the Chinese gov't has declared it's a Y-8 transport that crashed. Never mind the fact that KJ-2000 is never stationned at Anhui. The question is what type of Y-8 is this? The answer is that it doesn't really matter. If it is a Y-8 testbed, then another one can be built. If there is any major loss, it's the lives of some of the engineers. But then again, I'm sure lab 38 can overcome this.
Another thing you have to keep in mind is that KJ-2000's radar system is developed by lab 14, so this crash has absolutely no effect on that program."
The_Zergling
Junior Member
Wow, lots of different versions of the story. On one hand we have the KJ-2000 and the Y-8. Then a Taiwanese newspaper reported it as an Il-76. Makes you wonder where these reporters get their "sources"...
FreeAsia2000
Junior Member
I think what's sad is that nobody expressed any condolences to these
guys families.
I don't think the whole of the Chinese avionics industry is going to come
crashing down
guys families.
I don't think the whole of the Chinese avionics industry is going to come
crashing down
D
Deleted member 675
Guest
FreeAsia2000 said:
That's quite true! We should be thinking of the victims' families primarily, not theoretical discussions of what this might mean for China's military. :china:
Kampfwagen
Junior Member
Personaly, I dont care if it was a KJ-2000, a Y-8, Il-72 or a giant flying monkey robot. It just seems somewhat ridiculous that when something this serious happens, people start debating over what the model of plane was.
I think I can agree with FreeAsia. I give my condolences to the familes of those forty killed, and I hope the victims are resting in a better place.
I find it really bizzare that someone would sugest, however that the deaths of forty people would hold up an entire engeneering group like Lab 38. Though I am sure it is still a blow to the group to loose so many engeneers and designers at once, I doubt it will bring any ideas of invading Taiwan to a crashing halt, assuming there is some sort of cosmic schedule for this sort of thing.
Anyway. My heart goes out to the Forty families involved.
God Speed, gentlemen. God Speed. :china:
I think I can agree with FreeAsia. I give my condolences to the familes of those forty killed, and I hope the victims are resting in a better place.
I find it really bizzare that someone would sugest, however that the deaths of forty people would hold up an entire engeneering group like Lab 38. Though I am sure it is still a blow to the group to loose so many engeneers and designers at once, I doubt it will bring any ideas of invading Taiwan to a crashing halt, assuming there is some sort of cosmic schedule for this sort of thing.
Anyway. My heart goes out to the Forty families involved.
God Speed, gentlemen. God Speed. :china:
I've heard that the plane lost was a Y-8.
I've also heard that many of those lost are leading chinese aviation scientists conducting tests on these planes. It will be a huge setback for Shaanxi.
Again, I think the lost of knowledge and personnel is far more important than the lost of a plane, which is replacable.
I've also heard that many of those lost are leading chinese aviation scientists conducting tests on these planes. It will be a huge setback for Shaanxi.
Again, I think the lost of knowledge and personnel is far more important than the lost of a plane, which is replacable.