PLA strike strategies in westpac HIC

4Tran

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When it comes to procurement the disparity between the budget of the US DoD and the PLA is an illusion. The DoD has a lot more fixed costs than the PLA intrinsically: everything from veteran benefits, higher pay, the maintenance of overseas bases & deployments, actual combat activities, and so forth. The DoD's actual procurement budget is actually $311 billion.


And when you break down where all this money goes, and how much is wasted, it makes a lot more sense why China can do so much more with much less procurement budget.
 

SinoAmericanCW

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Again, I don't believe China is spending only 1.5% of its GDP on the military.

You do not get superior naval and equivalent aerial military production, plus massive nuclear expansion, while spending 3x less than the USA.

Perhaps the 1.5% military spending refers to the PLA ground forces. Maybe PLAAF spending is classified as science and technology, while PLAN spending is classified as environmental protection (protecting China's waters from external pollution).
China likely spends a bit more than 1.5% of its GDP on defense, but certainly less than 2%.

We shouldn't compare the USD value of China's defense budget with that of the U.S., though. We should *at least* first convert the former to PPP values.

If we do that, and using the IISS estimate of China's combined official budget + 'offbook' spending, we get, for 2024:
  • United States: $968 billion USD (3.32% of GDP)
  • China: $641 billion PPP (1.68% of GDP)
Or, in other words, China's defense spending amounted to ~2/3 that of the U.S. last year.

Note that the PPP values used here are of the generic variety. If we pushed the analysis further and calculated a 'military PPP', the ratio might be, depending on which analyst we ask, a bit
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or a bit
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to China.

Those caveats aside, I think the ~2/3 estimate is reasonable and I personally use it as my point of reference.
 

Wrought

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Whenever the question of military spending comes up I typically point to this paper, since it lays out a clear and replicable methodology for an apples-to-apples comparison. The figures themselves are less important than the process.

Contrary to estimates that China spends nearly $700 billion annually on defense, we estimate that China’s 2024 defense spending is equivalent to about $471 billion,* compared to U.S. 2024 defense spending of about $1.3 trillion.
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We show that off-budget items comprise a similar percentage of defense spending in both China (30 percent) and the United States (31 percent to 36 percent, depending on how spending by the Department of Homeland Security is treated).

Any estimate is highly dependent on assumptions about what should be included, what should be excluded, and how exchange rates should be treated. Although we provide a single estimate to illustrate our approach, that estimate falls within a plausible range of figures that might vary according to specific choices about which spending categories to measure, and how. Therefore, our most important contribution is to present a set of transparent, reasonable assumptions and calculations that can be evaluated by others seeking to understand what China spends on defense and how to compare that to spending by other countries.

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Jason_

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Whenever the question of military spending comes up I typically point to this paper, since it lays out a clear and replicable methodology for an apples-to-apples comparison. The figures themselves are less important than the process.



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Yeah, this paper has a clear methodology that is clearly wrong.
 
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tamsen_ikard

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One thing I notice in all this analysis of PPP or cost or efficiency of China's procurement vs US is this desire to show how China doesn't need more spending because they are already at parity or gaining with US when it comes to getting newer systems.

But why should that be the only criteria to judge what the military spending level should be?

China is not just fighting US, its fighting the whole US empire including US+asian allies+aus+Canada and even to some extent Europe. The whole US alliance combined is 60% of world GDP. Yes, they might be showing incompetence in terms of getting more systems into production but that's because they don't think they are threatened enough to sacrifice more. You get a China collapse or China paper tiger article every day in the western media which keeps them complacent. But that doesn't mean they don't have the huge capacity to increase production if they were really really serious. They have the capacity to produce huge number of jet engines or rockets too. China cannot fight US+allies fight with this low level of spending. Those allies are ramping up their spending and acquisitions.

Moreover, China is catching up to US numbers extremely slowly. The rate they are going, China will probably catch up to US in like 30 years when it comes to carrier numbers or submarine numbers. There is no guarantee war will happen 30 years from now. They might be forced to fight next year.

In fact, the threat of war is only increasing against China. US and allies are not blind. They see the trajectory China is going. They can do projections. And when they see the projection of China's future state 20-30 years from now, they might decide lets go for it now rather than wait for 30 years and lose.

I think there is no reason for China to be this slow to catch up to US. I think they should not go for parity. They should go for overmatch and completely dominate US and allies. Make their chances of winning better.

They can increase budget, and with that increased budget, they can increase their number of factories, boost production, train more troops for advanced planes, ships and so on. Because modern war is not like old times when you can start the war slow, then ramp up production for several years. China might be forced to expend all its munitions, fighters and ships in the first weeks. If you lose in those first weeks, your factories might be destroyed thus removing any opportunity to increase production. So, having a well trained but large force is very important.

Anyways, that's just my opinion. I think China is being very complacent, trusting of US intentions by keeping their budget this low. If the war comes in the next 5-10 years, they will regret this decision very badly. Its better to be more prepared rather than less.
 

bebops

Junior Member
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Realistically, when it comes down to a conflict, China is only fighting US Navy, Japan, Australia and Philippine.

Korea hasn't shown any interest to get involved. European countries will have a difficult time getting to the West Pac. Not convenient.

Australia and Philippine are limited participant. Australia will send a few submarine and warship to the battle. Philippine has no navy or fighter jets so they just launch missiles at their land.

US Navy is only limited to their carrier group.
 
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