PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

birdlikefood

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nobody really knows what the military brass or thr political leaders truly think. Winning or losing a war is almost impossible to predict because it has countless variables. Most of which is out of one's control. A lot of it also has to do with 'luck.'
China's military is also largely untested in modern warfare.
And will the civilian population able to stomach the potential heavy loses?
Majority of the men is the only child in their family.

“No one really knows what the top military or political leaders really think. Winning or losing a war is almost impossible to predict because of its countless variables. Much of it is out of control.”

My friend, the above sentence is meaningless nonsense, because it can be applied to any event and any situation.

"The Chinese military is also largely untested in modern warfare."

I can also say that no army in the world has experienced such short-term large-scale paramilitary operations of the same scale as the catastrophic flood rescue in 1998 and the Wenchuan earthquake rescue in 2008. During the catastrophic flood, the People's Liberation Army and the Armed Police Force successively mobilized 66 divisions, brigades, and the Armed Police Corps with a total of more than 300,000 troops, 1,170 boats, and more than 200 aircraft. By the end of the flood fight, the People's Liberation Army and the Armed Police had invested a total of 4.3322 million troops, organized more than 5 million militia reserve troops, used 236,800 vehicles, 37,500 boats, and 1,289 aircraft and helicopters. During the Wenchuan Earthquake, the People's Liberation Army and the Armed Police Force dispatched a total of 160,000 officers and soldiers to participate in the earthquake relief work in Sichuan.

It is a pity that it is impossible to quantify whether civilians can bear what kind of losses. But a valid reference is the mobilization capacity of governments and civilians during a pandemic. On the premise of not dispatching the army, hundreds of cities across the country have implemented closed management for a week or several weeks, involving hundreds of millions of people. There have been no energy supply and food supply disasters and almost no group riots in the process. I think you should have a basic awe of this ability to mobilize.

In addition, regarding the level of civilian support for the war, I have met all kinds of people, people who may be dissatisfied with the central government of the Communist Party, people who hate the local government, and people who yearn for the United States and Europe, but my In my memory, I really have never encountered anyone who opposed Taiwan's belonging to China. If a person opposes Taiwan as part of China, he will also die socially in peaceful times. If war is truly inevitable, half of China's residents will probably sincerely donate part of their income to the Taiwan Strait war. The number of private donations in the short term may not be less than 50 billion US dollars. China is a country under the dictatorship of the Communist Party. The grassroots organizations of the Communist Party have penetrated into all walks of life. Enterprises and various government departments will enter wartime mode in a very short period of time.

In 1945 during World War II, US military spending accounted for 37% of GDP. China's current military spending accounts for 1.7% of GDP. If the war really reaches the point where the world war cannot be reversed, it will not be too difficult for China to increase the proportion of military expenditure by 10 or 20 times. Excluding the industrial capacity and raw materials lost due to the war, imagine what it would be like to expand the equipment that the Chinese army currently possesses by five or eight times.

The most important thing is that the name of the Chinese army is called the "Chinese Liberation Army", and the biggest purpose of their existence is to complete the reunification of the motherland and protect territorial integrity. They were developed from a very small but well-disciplined "Puritan" army. They have a solid record of military discipline and organizational skills. They cannot have tattoos, drink alcohol, commit crimes, prostitutes, drugs, or engage in business. Even in recent years, their degree of execution of orders, fighting will and fighting literacy have been tested in the border conflict with India.

Most importantly, the PLA is widely respected at home. They don't carry guns every time they do a major civilian rescue operation. People who suffer from floods, earthquakes, cold waves, typhoons and even social injustice and local government injustice will regard them as "saviors". This kind of military-civilian relationship is unimaginable for the United States, Russia, Japan, South Korea and mainstream European countries.

Never underestimate China's war potential. We hope for peace across the Taiwan Strait because we fear our own power far more than we fear the enemy's power.

(mod: changed the text colour)
 
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birdlikefood

Junior Member
Registered Member
Then there's nothing constructive to discuss with someone who likes playing semantics.

Maybe it is the emotional play on semantics for you. But for me this is a fairly formal and serious question.

Regardless of discussing the order before and after World War II, there has never been a sovereign country called "Taiwan" in this world. Nor is it supported by any international laws and treaties.

In the current Taiwan, in the Constitution of the "Republic of China", "the territory of the Republic of China is based on its inherent territory" and the "Regulations on Relations between the People of the Taiwan Area and the Mainland Area" formulated by the government of the Republic of China in 1992 clearly stipulates that Taiwan is part of the territory of the Republic of China. Remember, this is the constitution and regulations recognized by the Taiwan government in power today. As for the Constitution of the People's Republic of China and the "Anti-Secession Law", I don't need to introduce it to you, because you can guess what's inside. Here we only grab the eighth article: "Taiwan independence" separatist forces in any name and in any way caused the fact that Taiwan was separated from China, or major incidents that would lead to Taiwan's separation from China occurred, or the possibility of peaceful reunification was completely lost , the country may take non-peaceful means and other necessary measures to defend national sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Let me emphasize again that even today's Taiwan government has to acquiesce that Taiwan is a part of China according to the law. Otherwise, the PLA will have to send troops, otherwise it will be a violation of the "Anti-Secession Law" The so-called "word games" you despise are the core key that can actually affect the lives of millions or even hundreds of millions of people.​
 
Last edited:

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I do agree with your assessment that many Westerners underestimate china's resolve on the Taiwan issue. I also believe the US is trying to goad China into a conflict because that's how uncle Sam knows to do.
At the end of the day everyone is looking after thier own self interest.
Also for right or wrong reasons there are some in the Pentagon and Congress who genuinely believes China is 'evil.
Similarly I've seen that word used against the US even here on this board. Languages like that is ignorantly hawkish at best and ominously dark at worst.
Ultimately, it depends on the scope of the war. Will it be a skirmish, conflict or an all out war short of nuclear Armageddon?
The problem with these types of discussions is people like being in an echo chamber. Everyone thinks their side is the greatest and on the right side if history and drowns out those whom they perceived as anything less that towing the party line. I'm old enough to know that is bullocks.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Even more so in something as complex as the history and geopolitics of this topic.
We can talk about biases and both sides if we talk about whether China or US deserves to rule globally, but this isn't such an issue.

There is evil and good here, because in this case there is an invader that has no cause aside from expansionism, and a defender that just wants to keep it's country and develop in peace.

I would also not approve if China wantonly wants to invade America and take America's land. It would be a waste of Chinese lives for something China doesn't need.

The war will grow as large as US makes it. China has made it's official position clear, it will negotiate the end of civil war and not fire on its own population unless it is absolutely necessary because they're colluding with foreign hostiles.
 

birdlikefood

Junior Member
Registered Member
Never underestimate China's war potential. We hope for peace across the Taiwan Strait because we fear our own power far more than we fear the enemy's power.
Sorry, I made a mistake for using the mods's red bold font. I will pay attention to it next time. Sorry
 
Last edited:

lcloo

Captain
After reading article 11 of the Constitution of the Republic of China. I made an interesting check on citizenship eligibility of ROC.

Article 11 of ROC's Constitution states that the country consist of "Free China area", i.e territories control by Taiwan regime, and Mainland China and other territories control by the communist. - This clearly indicate that Taiwan is part of China under separate regime rule.

Then separate article of ROC constitution as well as Taiwan's High Court ruling in February 2023 stated that all persons born in Mainland China are citizens of ROC. Again clearly indicate Taiwan and Mainland China belonged to one country.

It does not matter it is RoChina or People's RoChina. Taiwan and Mainland belonged to one country known as China, with 2 controlling governments in Beijing and Taipei, but only PRC is recognised in UN as the legitimate China.

Therefore calling Taiwan a country is incorrect. It is simply a remaining territory still control by ex-Chinese regime that losed the civil war, and will be re-united sooner or later, by force or by peaceful means.

大陆地区人民及港澳地区人民[
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]​

参见:
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民国71年(1982年)12月31日的
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71年台上字第8219号判例:
“兹我国大陆领土虽因一时为共匪所窃据,
而使国家统治权在实际行使上发生部分之困难,
司法权之运作亦因此有其事实上之窒碍,
但其仍属固有之疆域,
其上之人民仍属国家之构成员

自不能以其暂时之沦陷而变更其法律上之地位。”


民国82年(1993年)8月5日的
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法律决字第16337号函:
“参照两岸关系条例第2条第2、4款意旨,大陆地区人民亦为中华民国人民。”
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民国90年(2001年)
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诉字第4636号判决:
大陆地区之人民依中华民国宪法仍是中华民国之国民;惟因非目前中华民国政府有效统治土地之国民,为此宪法增修条文前言有:‘为因应国家统一前之需要’等语,而宪法增修条文第十一条第一项亦明定“自由地区与大陆地区间人民权利义务关系及其他事务之处理,得以法律为特别之规定”,从而,大陆地区人民非中华民国之外国人,而系适用依宪法增修条文第十一条制定之‘台湾地区与大陆地区人民关系条例’之大陆地区人民。”
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1949年,
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认为拥有
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三地的
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——
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,承认中国大陆的
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,以及
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(即两地拥有居留权的中国公民)有完全的中华民国国民身份。而自1949年起,基于两岸分治的现实,中国大陆与台湾之间断绝了交通往来。前往台湾定居的中国大陆人士通常是拥有“
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”身份者。两岸民众的交通往来、定居到1980年代
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后,方才逐步实现(参见:
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)。1993年,开放
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赴台定居。

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控制下的中国大陆地区相反,
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之间的交通往来从未断绝。1950年代至1970年代初,
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既有不少来自香港的选手。此外,不少有能力负担前往台湾船票的学生亦很愿意到台湾就读大学或就业,因为当时港澳
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他们仍然享有国民待遇,可自动取得
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;其中名人诸如科技界的
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、演艺界的
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等人或出生于香港,或出生于中国大陆,拥有或取得香港居民身份,再获得中华民国国民身份。1994年5月,
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废止与侨生相关的《回国侨生户籍登记办法》
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..........

2023年2月,在
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中,台湾高等法院高雄分院在判决中认为中国大陆人民也是中华民国人民,适用
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该院民一庭长在接受媒体采访时表示,经函询
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,获函复中国大陆人民也是中华民国人民,适用
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大陆委员会于2月17日发新闻稿称,本会函复
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的内容从未指称中国大陆人民是中华民国国民。查国籍法、入出国及移民法
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,“中华民国国民系‘具有中华民国国籍之居住台湾地区设有户籍国民或
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’”。
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Last edited:

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
After reading article 11 of the Constitution of the Republic of China. I made an interesting check on citizenship eligibility of ROC.

Article 11 of ROC's Constitution states that the country consist of "Free China area", i.e territories control by Taiwan regime, and Mainland China and other territories control by the communist. - This clearly indicate that Taiwan is part of China under separate regime rule.

Then separate article of ROC constitution as well as Taiwan's High Court ruling in February 2023 stated that all persons born in Mainland China are citizens of ROC. Again clearly indicate Taiwan and Mainland China belonged to one country.

It does not matter it is RoChina or People's RoChina. Taiwan and Mainland belonged to one country known as China, with 2 controlling governments in Beijing and Taipei, but only PRC is recognised in UN as the legitimate China.

Therefore calling Taiwan a country is incorrect. It is simply a remaining territory still control by ex-Chinese regime that losed the civil war, and will be re-united sooner or later, by force or by peaceful means.

大陆地区人民及港澳地区人民[
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]​

参见:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

民国71年(1982年)12月31日的
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71年台上字第8219号判例:
“兹我国大陆领土虽因一时为共匪所窃据,
而使国家统治权在实际行使上发生部分之困难,
司法权之运作亦因此有其事实上之窒碍,
但其仍属固有之疆域,
其上之人民仍属国家之构成员

自不能以其暂时之沦陷而变更其法律上之地位。”


民国82年(1993年)8月5日的
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
法律决字第16337号函:
“参照两岸关系条例第2条第2、4款意旨,大陆地区人民亦为中华民国人民。”
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



民国90年(2001年)
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诉字第4636号判决:
大陆地区之人民依中华民国宪法仍是中华民国之国民;惟因非目前中华民国政府有效统治土地之国民,为此宪法增修条文前言有:‘为因应国家统一前之需要’等语,而宪法增修条文第十一条第一项亦明定“自由地区与大陆地区间人民权利义务关系及其他事务之处理,得以法律为特别之规定”,从而,大陆地区人民非中华民国之外国人,而系适用依宪法增修条文第十一条制定之‘台湾地区与大陆地区人民关系条例’之大陆地区人民。”
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1949年,
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认为拥有
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三地的
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——
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,承认中国大陆的
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,以及
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(即两地拥有居留权的中国公民)有完全的中华民国国民身份。而自1949年起,基于两岸分治的现实,中国大陆与台湾之间断绝了交通往来。前往台湾定居的中国大陆人士通常是拥有“
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
”身份者。两岸民众的交通往来、定居到1980年代
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后,方才逐步实现(参见:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)。1993年,开放
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赴台定居。

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
控制下的中国大陆地区相反,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
之间的交通往来从未断绝。1950年代至1970年代初,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
既有不少来自香港的选手。此外,不少有能力负担前往台湾船票的学生亦很愿意到台湾就读大学或就业,因为当时港澳
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
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他们仍然享有国民待遇,可自动取得
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;其中名人诸如科技界的
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、演艺界的
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等人或出生于香港,或出生于中国大陆,拥有或取得香港居民身份,再获得中华民国国民身份。1994年5月,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
废止与侨生相关的《回国侨生户籍登记办法》
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
..........

2023年2月,在
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中,台湾高等法院高雄分院在判决中认为中国大陆人民也是中华民国人民,适用
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
该院民一庭长在接受媒体采访时表示,经函询
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,获函复中国大陆人民也是中华民国人民,适用
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Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
大陆委员会于2月17日发新闻稿称,本会函复
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的内容从未指称中国大陆人民是中华民国国民。查国籍法、入出国及移民法
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,“中华民国国民系‘具有中华民国国籍之居住台湾地区设有户籍国民或
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’”。
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only people supporting extreme revanchist movements and the overturning of the current world order would refer to Taiwan as a country, its like referring to Volga Germans as a country or Alsace-Lorraine as German at the start of ww2.

So yeah, it is definitely worth questioning why someone would hold such extreme beliefs if they express it, because it breaks the norms.
 
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