PLA Strategy in a Taiwan Contingency

yungho said:

I mean yeh obviously.. it's my opinion. What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.


They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

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Lol have you not looked into Hong Kong at all? Cage homes don't ring a bell? Know why that became the case? (spoiler: Capitalism)

Now though, it seems quite likely the next head of Hong Kong will have the will and power to actually help improve conditions and build new homes (with the backing of the central government as well).

yungho said:

The party is once again at the crux of the issue. Decades later China is still dealing with the legacy of the Cultural Revolution, 6/4, etc. It's pointless overhead because the China today is not the China of yesterday, but because due to the legacy of communism China still has to wrestle with the problems or 'sins' of the past. Maybe some mainland Chinese can accept them, but will HKers and Taiwanese? I've stated this previously, but if the 'house' is not stable we can forget any adventurism aboard. Any country has domestic issues, but can how any of them be talked about or addressed with the communists in power?

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There are no sins of the past. Whatever was done was either necessary (6/4) or an honest mistake (Great Leap Forward) and everyone just needs to accept the no road is perfectly smooth. Whether the house is stable is comparative; China's house is more stable than any Western house forever torn by rival political factions. But is it perfectly stable? By your definition that if any people have complaints, then it is unstable, then no country will ever be stable because your definitions is useless as it pertains to the real world.

yungho said:

The structure of governance is fine, but the power and restrictions of the central government scare away any hope of peaceful reunification. More importantly the legacy of the mistakes in the past linger on.

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Those restrictions and government powers are what leads China to so effectively vector its energy towards national growth and development. The PRC will not become more like the ROC or Hong Kong for reunification; they will be integrated into the PRC. So let's not pretend to them that it will be something that it's not.

yungho said:

For politics, it is barren.. Either you '亲共' or you hate yourself lol.

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If you're on China's team, that's it. No team needs people tearing up unity complaining all the time simply because not everything is perfectly to their liking. Pitch yourself in and sacrifice. Do what you can for your country; don't nag for your country to do things for you.

yungho said:

Who is satisfied with the current political situation? Workers are unhappy for various reasons and the capitalists are unhappy due to the increasing restrictions and souring global mood. No side gains from the current policies from this awkward middle ground.

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I am. Details are on the backburner. As long as China outgrows the US and is on track to be the world's most powerful nation, I'm satisfied and whatever needs to be sacrificed should be.

Other than that, people always find things to complain about; the grass is always greener on the other side. China's standards of living are rising; GDP is rising; national power is rising. Whatever people complain about is just small people nagging. The big picture is as close to perfect as it gets.

yungho said:

I mean yeh obviously.. it's my opinion. What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

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Convince them? Become the most powerful country in the world; that and only that will convince them. You play a pointless game otherwise to use "soft power" to convince a people whose media will paint you in a bad light no matter what you do. The only convincing that is necessary is a 2 pronged offense: our military is unstoppable and our economy is the most important in the world. Nobody can intervene between you and me. Join us or we make you join us.

yungho said:

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

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Whatever needs to be done. I don't know if they need to perish; ask them if they need to die over this or if they would come to their senses and reunify peacefully. They hold the answer.

yungho said:

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.

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Yes, ideally, it would be by military and economic coersion. That should be enough when the pincer comes to reunify them. Actually having a war and killing millions of Chinese-blooded people is not what the CCP wants, but it is a final option.

yungho said:

They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

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It's already better than everyone else. One thing holding it down is people bitching and nagging all the time that the best in the world isn't perfect, thus they end up doing the work of the West in sowing disunity in China.

yungho said:

I mean yeh obviously.. it's my opinion. What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.


They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

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Agreed a military scenario is a failure of policy on all sides

yungho said:

I mean yeh obviously.. it's my opinion. What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.


They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

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What has US done to convince Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese that capitalist democracy is good for them? Did they have excellent PowerPoints?

Did US talk nicely with the confederates to get them to abandon slavery?

How about how US got Texas and California, Mexico nicely donated it to them?

Did Native Americans graciously move themselves to the middle of the desert to allow whites to take all the prime land?

China already made reasonable concessions to HK and Taiwan. Concessions must be mutual. Otherwise, there must be the threat of a non mutual concession, enforced by coercion.

I don't view Taiwan being reunified by force as a failure at all. Germany, Japan, Confederacy, Texas and Native Americans stopped resisting in the end. Many are now proud US allies.

HK stopped resisting too.

yungho said:

What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them?

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What has the US done to convince the, nuclear attacked Japanese and the, invaded Vietnamese, that alliance/worship of the US is good for them?

yungho said:

I mean yeh obviously.. it's my opinion. What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.


They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

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Economically, China drives growth not just for the mainland but HK and Taiwan island too. They would not have life quality same as other coastal cities if Beijing didn't decided to make it so through its economical policies.

Oh no, the bots from Washington might get "censored". Not like in the status quo, the western Internet is ailing under USA censorship anyways, with even ppl linking fake.cn addresses while Asian getting marked by automatic censors.

Collaborators with foreign countries, especially ones espousing far right and racist rhetoric, ones founded on genocide, ones who occupied Chinese soil and treated people like slaves and 2nd class citizens, will never have a place. It is normal and correct to punish ppl who work with an enemy that wishes grave harm upon the nation and every citizen inside.

If the military needs to be used to get rid of the civil war remnants or not, the ball is completely in the ROC's court. Beijing is likely to need more extensive services from Taiwan province soon, from basing against increased US aggression, to industry/economy initiatives to help bolster national security.

It doesn't have to end with the entire KMT purged from the political scene. There are many insurrectionist movements in recent history that were resolved without bloodshed through dialogue and compromise, sometimes with the displeased separatist party being given consessions that completely satisfied their base. But by becoming a collaborator regime and inviting enemy countries to invade China, the destruction of any collab within the ROC will happen.

yungho said:

I mean yeh obviously.. it's my opinion. What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.


They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

Click to expand...

yungho said:

What has the communists done to convince HKers and Taiwanese reunification/handover is good for them? HK and Taiwan benefit economically either way and from a quality of life perspective it would go down - their internet would start getting censored too.

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That's an idiotic question. Do you actually think for a nano second that Hong Kong would happily exist and enjoy it's economic development without China's direct and indirect involvement all those many years? As for Taiwan, the benefit is economics which allow those ungrateful bullies to live comfortably because they are allowed by the mainland to trade generously the only thing the mainland ask for is not to declare independence and or inviting the U.S. along with Japan to cause trouble as if they're going to come and rescue the hapless loud mouthes when the shooting starts. There's still a lingering sore spot against the Japanese for what they have done against China and the Chinese people a history I assume you ought to be more than intimately familiar with.

yungho said:

Now you might say oh just foreign propaganda poisoning their minds. Ok I don't disagree, does that mean they need to 'perish'?
Now you also might say.. oh they won't have a choice. Ok.. but does that justify the death and suffering of thousands of people?

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That's right, they don't have a choice, and must not have a choice of hoisting sets of policies, political ideologies, that's antithesis to the very system that's brought about unprecedented modern economic juggernaut in the history of the world. The current Taiwanese political system didn't do or achieve any of their economic prosperity, that was achieved when it was under the iron fist control of the KMT. The same goes with South Korea, and Japan under a defacto one party rule of the Liberal party which have been occupied by the sons of War A Class criminals. Would those countries have allowed a different political system to run their countries? If the answer is no, then why would China be any different?

yungho said:

If you believe they should punished or suffer because of 'unrepentance' all well and good. For me, a military reunification reflects a failure of Chinese policy.

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Military action as an option shouldn't be taken off the table period. While taking military option if it occurs while unfortunate its the absolute necessity to obliterate any and all would be enemies willing, trying to separate Taiwan from China. Again, there has yet to be any examples from the supposed superior and civilized Liberal West where diplomatic route or diplomacy was able to achieve any political objectives especially pertinent to territorial issues. Britain waged war against Argentina for the Falkland. And to this day Diego Garcia has yet to be returned to it's indigenous inhabitants even after the ruling rendered by the U.N.

China on has managed to negotiate its 15 out of 16 if am not mistaken territorial/border disputes diplomatically. The remaining sore spot is the one with India. And that has been achieved without going to war. So again, please learn to appreciate your own countries and governments historical achievements rather than point out the imperfection of whats ultimately human institutions and affairs that'll always be imperfect.

yungho said:

They have their own problems and I hope they figure it out. The only thing I'm concerned about is where China can continue to improve and be better than everyone else.

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Their problems are bigger and more systemic than what you care or admit to realize.

5unrise said:

I've been hearing terrible stories about how awful and evil the communist party is my entire life. So, yeah, I would say I have 'already heard the other side'
Their lack of credibility boils down essentially to this: motive. The vast majority of people telling me these stories are driven not by a desire to improve China, but by a desire to see China fail. Their opinions mean nothing to me

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This is hitting the nail on the head right here.

All the so-called “pro-democracy” people whether they are from the West, HK, TW, or wherever, they are expect China to become totally submissive to the desires of America (sorry, “international rules-based order”) in this scenario.

It's absolute horsepoop. If TW continued to threaten independence under a democratic regime, then the Chinese government would continue to be as belligerent as they saw fit. If the HK riots happened in the same fashion, they would likely not be handled any differently under this presumed democracy.

The concerns don't actually change at all, so that's how we know that the true desire is to see failure, not success.

I found this posts from @Captaincool7 (Chinese-American) YouTuber enlightening and heartwarming to learn and know.

Taiwanese are led into believing that they can continue to extract maximum economic benefits without the need to settle the problem of reunification. Such win lose proposition is untenable for the long term.

Mainland could be waiting for the outcome of the next presidential election in 2024 before deciding on the next move. Things could drastically spiral downwards if DPP wins again.