I think those are PAP not PLAGF?
PLA Small arms
- Thread starter Vanguard1688
- Start date
I may be wrong, but their sholder patch seem to say "陆军" or “PLAGF”, for example here
Also I think this isn't the only place where we've seen rather large-scale usage of the new SMG, I'll dig around to see if I can find more examples.
I think a good question is why bother with this SMG in military use when a carbine like QBZ-192 would have a similar form factor and way better capabilities including range and penetration. Not to mention it wouldn't make logistics more difficult by adding yet another ammo caliber to the ground forces.
Exactly, one would assume that the new SMG and QBZ-192 have a lot of overlapping qualities, but so far PLAGF seems to have issued quite some number of SMGs to troops and not as many (?) carbines
My guess by looking at the advanced age of some of those people and the insignia on their collars, that these SMGs will be a replacement for pistols for officers. These guys are ranked Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel, Captain and the like. Even a couple Major Generals. Or at least that would have been my guess if it wasn't for the fact a lot of them also carry pistols.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
And then they set to withdraw them from service as the Krink is pretty awful a weapon. The Short barrel and abbreviated gas system creates a number of issues of overheating, poor accuracy and generally poor performance. In its place the Russians would eventually develop the AK 105 and AK104 with a 12.5 inch barrel.
This is fairly similar to the AR15’s history where in Vietnam numbers of the Colt model 607 and XM177 CAR15 commando would be issued but found obnoxious as a weapon due to High sound flash and poorer reliability vs the standard M16 of the era. Though the shorter length made it more handy the muzzle blast and sound report made it a double edged sword vs both its targets and any armored vehicle crew who we’re supposed to use it. To correct this various modifications were made including increasing the barrel length to 11.5 inches (though the current Mk18 returned to 10.5” barrels) or adding a moderator increasing it to 14.5 inches (M4’s barrel length). Very few assault rifles in military use prove reliable or are fielded with barrel lengths below 10.5 inches. The AKS74U was about a 9” barrel as is the G36C which isn’t widely used beyond airsoft and movies props.
You end up answering your own question. However in comment on the latter the PLA seems to be dropping the 5.8 pistol caliber entirely for 9x19mm which is common to the SMGs meaning that that they are a common caliber.
Which is similar to what is seen in a number of armies. Where SMGs and PDWs are issued to rear line troops or troops in positions where a rifle is to big or where it’s just inappropriate.
When we saw the QCW171 in parades we saw it on the hands of tank and IFV crews where their primary weapon is the vehicle and the SMG would only be used if someone tried to mass it or they had to bail out.
The Russians have adopted SMGs for use by pilots as a survival weapon. A situation where in space of the ejection seat survival box is the limiting factor and let’s face it you can cut down an SMG far smaller than a rifle.
The US has retained SMGs for personal protective details around General officers in diplomatic missions rather than combat missions.
Very nice explanation, many thanks! One question remains in my mind: we’ve also seen fully kitted out PLA soldiers (likely not rear line) carry these SMGs, not quite to the extent of “regularly”, but more commonly than I’d expect since they do have a perfectly good carbine in the QBZ192. Maybe it’s for certain people in a squad, say a secondary machine gunner or secondary AT guy; or perhaps for certain missions the SMG is preferable?
interesting firing stance they were using in the second photo. it seemed to mix in some precision shooting technique into what is fundamentally an unprecise weapon. i wonder what range they were firing at.
In this particular set of photos, by their age, how many are wearing eye glasses, and what the red banner says, I think these men are very likely the GA's staff of command. including the commanders and the staff members. It is thus reasonable that they are trained to use SMG.