PLA Next Generation Main Battle Tank

Tomboy

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The most baseline assumption would be they're for CITVs -- standard optics.
The idea of it being some exotic shared CITV mount with a DEW is a bit much, and the fact they look the same/similar can just be explained by sharing the same sensors/sensor housing for purposes of standardization and proliferating high end capabilities and achieving economies of scale.





Not necessarily.
If these are vehicles of the same family, sharing sensors -- if not at least in housings, then perhaps even in sensors themselves -- makes some sense



There is no basis to assume that... Considering these vehicles require a CITV/EO sensor as a more basic key subsystem, if that was a DEW laser then they'd lack a CITV which would just not really make sense.
The CITV again is likely just retracted, this tank obviously prioritises signature reduction and the APS systems seems to be retractable as well hence no reason that the CITV would not be retractable. Even the gunner's thermal is integrated into the turret.
 

Blitzo

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The CITV again is likely just retracted, this tank obviously prioritises signature reduction and the APS systems seems to be retractable as well hence no reason that the CITV would not be retractable. Even the gunner's thermal is integrated into the turret.

I don't think there is any consensus or evidence that the CITV or the gun sight are retractable??

If anything, given how vital the CITV and gun sight are for a AFV -- i.e.: they must immediately be operable and functional -- having them retract out of the turret is nonsensical.
If you're a reconaissance vehicle, sure sometimes a retractable/telescoping optical sensor makes sense, but that's because it isn't your primary warfighting and situational awareness sensor to be used constantly whether you're on the move or stationary, under virtually all conditions.


Edit: not to mention, the idea of a retractable CITV doesn't make sense for signature reduction reasons either considering the tank already has a RWS and two quad APS mounts on top already anyway.
 
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Tomboy

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I don't think there is any consensus or evidence that the CITV or the gun sight are retractable??

If anything, given how vital the CITV and gun sight are for a AFV -- i.e.: they must immediately be operable and functional -- having them retract out of the turret is nonsensical.


If you're a reconaissance vehicle, sure sometimes a retractable/telescoping optical sensor makes sense, but that's because it isn't your primary warfighting and situational awareness sensor!


Edit: not to mention, the idea of a retractable CITV doesn't make sense for signature reduction reasons either considering the tank already has a RWS and two quad APS mounts on top already anyway.
That is literally what people on Weibo including credible posters like Captain are saying, the gunsight is integrated into the turret behind that hatch on the turret face. CITV is also absolutely not vital for combat given a lot of tanks even right now lacks them. 1000103448.jpg
There is also evidence that the APS is retractable, why mount them on these platforms in a cutout of their own if they aren't meant to be moved. plas-next-gen-tank-with-unmanned-turret-v0-q3mbf2dkfbsd1.png
The prototype for this vehicle also had retractable APS.

It is simply too early to dismiss that this tank might have retractable sensors and saying this tank does *not* have any form of method to protect itself from drones. We should just wait and see.
 
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KampfAlwin

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That is literally what people on Weibo including credible posters like Captain are saying, the gunsight is integrated into the turret behind that hatch on the turret face. CITV is also absolutely not vital for combat given a lot of tanks even right now lacks them. View attachment 158225
There is also evidence that the APS is retractable, why mount them on these platforms in a cutout of their own if they aren't meant to be moved. View attachment 158226
The prototype for this vehicle also had retractable APS.

It is simply too early to dismiss that this tank might have retractable sensors and saying this tank does *not* have any form of method to protect itself from drones.
Retractable APS? So it potentially carries more than 8 APS charges?
 

Blitzo

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That is literally what people on Weibo including credible posters like Captain are saying, the gunsight is integrated into the turret behind that hatch on the turret face. CITV is also absolutely not vital for combat given a lot of tanks even right now lacks them. View attachment 158225

The gunsight position on the turret face is one which I believe could be reasonable.

CITV is absolutely a baseline expectation for a modern tank intended for service. Heck, even modern IFVs these days have CITVs.
Sure, you can have a modern tank without a CITV, but then you just have a gimped and poorly equipped tank.



There is also evidence that the APS is retractable, why mount them on these platforms in a cutout of their own if they aren't meant to be moved. View attachment 158226
The prototype for this vehicle also had retractable APS.

I wouldn't assume the APS is retractable either -- again, that just adds mechanical complexity and another opportunity for failure for a subsystem which should be constantly "ready" to defend against threats. And it doesn't even look like the recessed space would be enough for the APS to retract into it anyhow.
The fact that it looks "retractable" could merely be to allow the APS turret mounting to be more easily installed and/or removed for maintenance, which would have proven particularly relevant for a prototype.


It is simply too early to dismiss that this tank might have retractable sensors and saying this tank does *not* have any form of method to protect itself from drones.

I won't rule out 100% the idea of the tank having retractable sensors, however I would very much not consider it as consensus baseline. (The idea of the gunner's sight being located on the front turret face would not be a retractable sensor; that would rather just be a case of the sensor either being yet fit to the turret or the turret having the panel covering the sensor and would be usually removed instead)

As for "not" having any method to protect itself from drones, I never said that.
Not having a DEW/laser does not equate to not having a method to protect itself from drones. It still has two quad pack APS and also a RWS that should be able to mount a HMG after all.


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Overall, the situation at present should be this:
1. Most modern tanks (and IFVs) come with CITVs as standard
2. It is reasonable for modern AFVs to share common sensors and subsystems such as optics/CITVs
3. There is no evidence as of yet that the new tank as "retractable" sensors, especially for key things such as a CITV
4. If the new tank and new IFV's optic mount is a DEW/laser (instead of a CITV), then that would be a rather exceptional high end system on top of an already very well equipped vehicle (APS, 360 degree radar, 360 degree fixed optical sensors), while also depriving it of the most obvious candidate for a CITV

Therefore, at present when we have no evidence that there is a retractable CITV, it makes sense for the null hypothesis to conclude that the optic mount is a CITV.
 
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no_name

Colonel
Could the fact that the parade vehicles of the newest tanks/IFVs are painted in desert camouflage indicate that the first brigades receiving these units are geared for combat in desert biomes? If so, then could this be an reflection of where the central leadership believes the probability of future ground combat operations in a desert biome is relatively high? Which would be surprising, as one would assume the most probable military conflict that the PLA would be involved in would occur in a primarily coastal/tropical biome.
Maybe this could be for Taiwan/Other island operations. Beach is also sandy. Also they are airborne.
 
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