PLA Next Generation Main Battle Tank

alanch90 said:

Ania here has a point because I´ve heard those rumors as well. Perhaps in a more traditional sense this may be a 105mm but with higher pressure (ala Russian 2A82 or German L55A1). But even if this is just a traditional 105mm, it can still perform its mission. Abrams had an 105mm originally after all. If the rationale behind upgunning is just about tank dueling, then actual combat experience shows that tank dueling is hardly common, more like an exeption to the rule. So the questions we should ask ourselves to figure out why PLA is willing to go down in caliber are these:

- How and where is this tank projected to be utilized?
- What are the threats and likely missions in the projected operational theatre?

And then after all these we can get into what kind of tank duels are expected. Theres also a possibility that PLA figured out a new type of ammunition to deal with tanks other than APFSDS.

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105mm ATGM with tandem or even triple warhead and top-down attack profile should easily do the trick on most current or future MBTs.

Iron Man said:

105mm ATGM with tandem or even triple warhead and top-down attack profile should easily do the trick on most current or future MBTs.

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APS is still a problem for AGTMs, sure they don't work 100 percent of the time but if it works you'll lose your first strike advantage and unless this new tank looks a lot more armored than it seems, it seems unlikely it'll survive the latest/near future NATO APFSDS rounds.

Tomboy said:

APS is still a problem for AGTMs, sure they don't work 100 percent of the time but if it works you'll lose your first strike advantage and unless this new tank looks a lot more armored than it seems, it seems unlikely it'll survive the latest/near future NATO APFSDS rounds.

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Maybe it's an unmanned turret? IDK

BTW ATGMs usually far outrange kinetic rounds and it's certainly possible to get multiple shots in before the enemy tank even gets one, depending on range and closing speed. The other benefit to ATGMs is that they are non-LOS and the tank can be more hull down than if they had to fire their kinetic rounds. If networked they may even be able to hand fire control off to an overhead helo (e.g. a Z-19) and engage the enemy tank completely non-LOS.

Iron Man said:

Maybe it's an unmanned turret? IDK

BTW ATGMs usually far outrange kinetic rounds and it's certainly possible to get multiple shots in before the enemy tank even gets one, depending on range and closing speed. The other benefit to ATGMs is that they are non-LOS and the tank can be more hull down than if they had to fire their kinetic rounds. If networked they may even be able to hand fire control off to an overhead helo (e.g. a Z-19) and engage the enemy tank completely non-LOS.

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But still I believe a larger gun than 105mm would still be better, I don't see any reason to downsize to 105mm. Larger guns means larger HE/MP shells to use against softer targets/Anti concrete and other purpose which would be more effective. It would also allow for larger gun launched AGTM for longer range and more warhead size also increasing effectiveness. 105mm was IMO only used on ZTQ-15 because extremely weight requirement and its expected to fight basically old T-72s and IFVs only in bad terrain.

Tomboy said:

But still I believe a larger gun than 105mm would still be better, I don't see any reason to downsize to 105mm. Larger guns means larger HE/MP shells to use against softer targets/Anti concrete and other purpose which would be more effective. It would also allow for larger gun launched AGTM for longer range and more warhead size also increasing effectiveness. 105mm was IMO only used on ZTQ-15 because extremely weight requirement and its expected to fight basically old T-72s and IFVs only in bad terrain.

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Yeah TBH I can't imagine a new MBT design downgrading to 105mm, I'm just imagining justifications for if they did. OTOH I can easily imagine a new MBT upgrading to a 140mm gun or something in that ballpark.

VLOGing channel on Rednote, but I believe they videoed the next generation tank without actually knowing it but they blurred it out which is probably good thinking on their part. You could still tell it's the new tank by the wheels, tarp covered turret and the faceted gun. There was two of them possibly in different configuration. IMO sightings of the next gen tank seems to have gotten a lot more frequent recently, perhaps we might see it officially revealed later this year.

Edit: It seems that these tanks are equipt with larger and longer guns than the one we saw last time and doesn't have the faceted gun casing.

I know nothing about tanks, but are these tanks used for guerrilla warfare? Obviously, they have the characteristics of high speed and stealth, such as hiding near cities or mountains and relying on sky intelligence for rapid assault operations? Does the lighter weight also mean that this car is cheaper and more able to withstand losses?

Nevermore said:

I know nothing about tanks, but are these tanks used for guerrilla warfare? Obviously, they have the characteristics of high speed and stealth, such as hiding near cities or mountains and relying on sky intelligence for rapid assault operations? Does the lighter weight also mean that this car is cheaper and more able to withstand losses?

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Chinese doctrines don't seem to priorities city warfare with their tanks, they'll use IFVs for those. But potentially these new tanks with addon armor could also do well in city warfare. Lighter weight of this tank isn't really indicative of its protection levels, since there are pictures of this tank with heavy addon armor that supposedly brings up the weight to 50 tons which is basically the normal weight of MBTs. But this modular design means this tank could replace the 99As up north, 96As down south and ZTQ-15s in the west all at once since without any addon armor modules this tank would weigh about as much as a ZTQ-15 which makes it suitable for mountain warfare in the west and with heavy armor addons I believe the crew protection would be at least as good as the ZTZ-99A, probably alot better because most of the 50 tons is going into the hull due to unmanned turret being much smaller and not needing heavy protection(Probably good enough to withstand next gen NATO autocannon rounds) since no crew is in there. ZTZ-96As would probably be replaced by this tank with normal armor addons to keep its weight at 40 tons-ish to traverse soft terrain in the south. As to the cost of this tank, it should be quite expensive since it uses advanced technology like unmanned turret, next generation thermals and sensors which all cost a fortune.

tl;dr: This tank IMO will be a true universal tank that can replace basically tank in PLAGF service with different addon packages and protection level of this tanks with their respective packages should be at least as good as the tanks they will be replacing. Potentially there will also be a specialized kit for city warfare similar to the TUSK kit for the M1A2 Abrams, but I'd imagine this kits for this tank to be more comprehensive than a mere "addon" kit due to how modular the design is.
This is speculated to be the tank with heavy armor addon kit, see the heavy composite blocks on the side and fenced armor covering the engine and with heavy addon LFP armor in the front. Notice also the APS seems to be able to be retracted potentially for better low observability. Speculated to weigh ~50t

While this is the speculated to be the "base" configuration with no external addon armor of any kind. Speculated to weigh ~40t. Potentially with modular internal armor, more armor could be removed to further reduce weight to ~30t for a light armored configuration to replace the ZTQ-15.