Why do the Japanese have a first-class MBT? However powerful your navy and/or air force may be, you'll always need boots on the ground to control territory. And infantry are awfully vulnerable to armor in many parts of the world and even in an urban environment a tank has its disadvantages.
PLA Next Generation Main Battle Tank
- Thread starter by78
- Start date
Why do the Japanese have a first-class MBT? However powerful your navy and/or air force may be, you'll always need boots on the ground to control territory. And infantry are awfully vulnerable to armor in many parts of the world and even in an urban environment a tank has its disadvantages.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Japanese have only tad over hundred Type 10 tanks in service and they aren't planning replacing older tanks one to one basis.
I'd argue +1000 Type-99s is a decent number enough and tanks could have same fate as battleships had during secong world war... mostly useless or getting blow to pieces.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
People have been calling the end of the tank for decades yet end game is they aren't going away. The Battle ship couldn’t compete with Aircraft that offered longer range attack and more effective battle vs fleets.
There isn’t a ground equal to the carrier on deck. The tanks lost in the Middle East are primarily due to improper use. From the first battles of world war 1 it was made apparent that armor used without support was doomed.
There isn’t a ground equal to the carrier on deck. The tanks lost in the Middle East are primarily due to improper use. From the first battles of world war 1 it was made apparent that armor used without support was doomed.
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Unsure how credible the guy or his source is, but rumor has it that prototypes of the 4th-generation Chinese MBT has been spotted during trials in Inner Mongolia:
Poster provided an image for context:
There was also a rumor from "Oedosoldier" in 2017 that a 20 MJ tank gun is under development. That is almost twice the muzzle energy of most current 120/125 mm tank guns.
Rough translation:
Poster provided an image for context:
There was also a rumor from "Oedosoldier" in 2017 that a 20 MJ tank gun is under development. That is almost twice the muzzle energy of most current 120/125 mm tank guns.
Lol if that's true and they make it >125mm with a long sabot, it'll punch through any MBT turret from front to rear. All this military effort in armour and penetration cycle but most still ignore the top. I understand having tanks but wouldn't it be easier to counter tanks using cheap drone swarms that focus on top attacks. Innovations in these areas are seriously lacking.
A Javelin or ATGM can get intercepted or spoofed pretty effectively nowadays but no MBT can defend against a few dozen medium sized commercial type drones dropping purposefully developed top attack weapons.
Last edited:
Slow drones sound like a easy task for radar guided MG to shoot down, someone just have to make the software for it.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Not as easy as you want to make it seem. Simple countermeasures can be countered. Commercial drones are easier to jam. Any APS can also kill it.
laser systems already fry them.
Skywatcher
Captain
Given the speed of most quadcopters, an programmable, airbursting grenade launcher (of sufficient velocity) would work too.
Some information about the new generation ERAs:
(originally posted Dec 21, 2019)
2017年的兵器工业52研究所纪录片，首次展示了国产电磁装甲和自主创新的爆炸反应装甲。
“第一代反应装甲，相当于是在国外基础上发展，然后逐渐从第二代开始都是创新的东西，一直到现在是第五代。咱们都有专利，都获了奖，都获得了应用，这样一点一点达到了世界不能说是先进，而且是领先水平”——中国兵器工业集团首席专家 曹贺全。【图5-6】
【图2-3】国产电磁主动装甲防杆式穿甲弹实验，电磁装甲在弹药命中前提前引爆，增加弹靶作用时间，显著提高防护性能。
【图4-5】国产“三防”（防穿防破防串联）反应装甲防串联弹效果动画演示，双层楔形平板反应装甲搭配聚能反击弹，能够有效应付各种类型的反坦克弹药，国外目前没有见过相同原理的产品。（FY4研制出来到现在也块30年了，14年左右获准出口，现在原理也已经公开了）
【图8】新一代轻型坦克装甲方案，此处是原型车模型，15式应该也有差不多的配置。
【图9】第四代坦克相关。
Rough translation:
A documentary of the 52nd research institute of ordnance industries in 2017, first showing the domestic electromagnetic armor and the new self-developed ERA.
"The first generation of ERA was developed based on foreign designs, and from the 2nd gen on there were new innovations, until now the 5th gen. We all got patents, have all been awarded and our technologies applied, bit by bit becoming a leader in the world's ERA development." —— chief expert of Norinco, Cao Hequan
[Pictures 2-3] KE test of the domestic electromagnetic active armor, the armor explodes before the shell strikes, increasing time of contact between the shell and the target, dramatically improving the performance of protection.
[Pictures 4-5] Domestic "Triple defense (protection against KE, HEAT and tandem)" ERA module animated demonstration against a tandem HEAT shell, which uses dual-layered wedge-shaped-plate and Gathering-energy-effect counterattack modules, is able to deal with all types of anti tank munitions, and the mechanism of the product is exclusive to China. (FY4 has been fully developed for nearly 30 years, was allowed to export in roughly 2014, and the mechanism has already been uncovered.)
[Picture 8] Next gen light tank armor scheme, the picture shows a model of the prototype, similar specs are expected for the Type 15.
[Picture 9] Fourth gen tank related. (High power-density piston developed for the 4th gen)
This guy is an old member when concerning domestic tanks and according to him, had even seen the blueprint and some other details of the type 99. His informations are quite reliable.
It is now clear that FY5 is an existing product and has a high chance of being under service (he confessed it being used on the Type 15 in another post), and that FY4 uses a new exclusive mechanism.
I strongly recommend checking out his profile on weibo, if you can read chinese. There is still some information concerning Chinese tanks where i will choose to post and translate.
Some other reliable sources: (Chinese required) 重兵器吧 on baidu tieba, where a guy called Ilike磁能 also integrates some information on Chinese tanks. Obj-477 also releases some information here as well (the fact that 15 uses FY5 is released here).
I'm Chinese so I cant translate so well so you can ask me if you want.
(originally posted Dec 21, 2019)
2017年的兵器工业52研究所纪录片，首次展示了国产电磁装甲和自主创新的爆炸反应装甲。
“第一代反应装甲，相当于是在国外基础上发展，然后逐渐从第二代开始都是创新的东西，一直到现在是第五代。咱们都有专利，都获了奖，都获得了应用，这样一点一点达到了世界不能说是先进，而且是领先水平”——中国兵器工业集团首席专家 曹贺全。【图5-6】
【图2-3】国产电磁主动装甲防杆式穿甲弹实验，电磁装甲在弹药命中前提前引爆，增加弹靶作用时间，显著提高防护性能。
【图4-5】国产“三防”（防穿防破防串联）反应装甲防串联弹效果动画演示，双层楔形平板反应装甲搭配聚能反击弹，能够有效应付各种类型的反坦克弹药，国外目前没有见过相同原理的产品。（FY4研制出来到现在也块30年了，14年左右获准出口，现在原理也已经公开了）
【图8】新一代轻型坦克装甲方案，此处是原型车模型，15式应该也有差不多的配置。
【图9】第四代坦克相关。
Rough translation:
A documentary of the 52nd research institute of ordnance industries in 2017, first showing the domestic electromagnetic armor and the new self-developed ERA.
"The first generation of ERA was developed based on foreign designs, and from the 2nd gen on there were new innovations, until now the 5th gen. We all got patents, have all been awarded and our technologies applied, bit by bit becoming a leader in the world's ERA development." —— chief expert of Norinco, Cao Hequan
[Pictures 2-3] KE test of the domestic electromagnetic active armor, the armor explodes before the shell strikes, increasing time of contact between the shell and the target, dramatically improving the performance of protection.
[Pictures 4-5] Domestic "Triple defense (protection against KE, HEAT and tandem)" ERA module animated demonstration against a tandem HEAT shell, which uses dual-layered wedge-shaped-plate and Gathering-energy-effect counterattack modules, is able to deal with all types of anti tank munitions, and the mechanism of the product is exclusive to China. (FY4 has been fully developed for nearly 30 years, was allowed to export in roughly 2014, and the mechanism has already been uncovered.)
[Picture 8] Next gen light tank armor scheme, the picture shows a model of the prototype, similar specs are expected for the Type 15.
[Picture 9] Fourth gen tank related. (High power-density piston developed for the 4th gen)
This guy is an old member when concerning domestic tanks and according to him, had even seen the blueprint and some other details of the type 99. His informations are quite reliable.
It is now clear that FY5 is an existing product and has a high chance of being under service (he confessed it being used on the Type 15 in another post), and that FY4 uses a new exclusive mechanism.
I strongly recommend checking out his profile on weibo, if you can read chinese. There is still some information concerning Chinese tanks where i will choose to post and translate.
Some other reliable sources: (Chinese required) 重兵器吧 on baidu tieba, where a guy called Ilike磁能 also integrates some information on Chinese tanks. Obj-477 also releases some information here as well (the fact that 15 uses FY5 is released here).
I'm Chinese so I cant translate so well so you can ask me if you want.
