PLA next/6th generation fighter thread

Inst

Captain
The more interesting technology is lasers. A good airborne laser can shoot down any incoming missiles, while at the same time outranging guns. So it turns fights into one of bombers and other heavy aircraft, instead of light fighters.
 

Inst

Captain
You can always fly above the rain. The longest Chinese laser system to date has a range of 4 km. This is about the same as the max range of a gun system. It'd need to reach at least 10 km, which would give it 10 seconds to shoot down a Mach 4 missile, and be miniaturizable onto an aircraft, before it's viable to end missile-land.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Laser systems have potential but not quite yet as offensive weapons the power requirements and limitations of current lasers I think make it better suited to a defence. Unlike a gun system that is fixed. A laser can traverse. That said again power limits come into play. It will take time for the laser turret to cool and the fighters power plant to build up the charge to cycle again.
Another tech that is being looked at is defensive missiles. Smaller interceptor missiles that can be carried in greater numbers and fired against incoming air to air missiles or potentially even enemy fighters.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Interview with head of CAC Wang Haifeng
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The Chinese hunter post J-20 from 2035?
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2e8d649e1b274ce816887d2ce17d9964


BY
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"Producing X-1 generation equipment, developing X generation, pre-studying X + 1 generation" (生产 一代, 研制 一代, 预 研 一代), is the rule followed by Chinese manufacturers for several decades. year. In today's day when the J-10C and J-16 fighters are currently in the mass production stage and the J-20 still in development - although the latter has already entered service - how do the thinkers of the military aviation industry in China see the generation X + 1, ie the "6th generation" according to the US and Russian classification, or "5th" for the Chinese, sometimes gives valuable indications on the devices that will appear after the J- 20 within 15 to 20 years.

Aerotime, the state media specialized in aeronautics manufacturing, recently published its interview with WANG Hai Feng (王海峰), the new chief engineer of the 611 Chengdu Institute.

It is in this office of the aircraft manufacturer AVIC that many hunters and drones Chinese have emerged since 1970, as J-7, J-9, J-10, J-20, FC-1 / JF-17 and Wing Loong, as well as
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.

Former student of SONG Wen Cong (宋文 骢) - who was responsible for the J-10 program, member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, and especially the one who defined in 2001 the aerodynamic framework of the J-20 known today Hui - WANG has been involved in almost all of the 611 Institute's programs for the last 30 years, and is currently leading several pre-study projects such as Vector Driven Thrust and Turbine-Based Combined Cycle Engine (TBCC ). , and also the next-generation hunter (post J-20).

Asked about the question to know what was put in place to allow a relatively short development cycle of the J-20, namely the official launch of the project in October 2007, the first flight in January 2011 and the entry into service announced in February 2018, WANG mentions four essential points.

"Whatever the project it is inseparable with pre-studies. When a project meets the operational needs expressed at a point in time up to a certain limit, pre-studies help to better understand and explore new concepts and new technologies, "said the 55-year-old chief engineer. In Chengdu, pre-study teams are never detached from concrete projects, so they can look where to put their feet, while raising their heads to look where we go. "

He goes on to say: "The success of J-10 and J-20 development is based on the fundamental pre-studies conducted in the 1960s around the duck configuration. When SONG and the other people saw the potential of this configuration, especially at the fitness level, they decided to do a lot of wind tunnel tests to master the concept, and all this work (via the J-9 project which was subsequently canceled (Ed)) served as a technological reserve for the following programs. "

"In three, you have to remember that the key technologies in Defense can not be bought, but one can always draw inspiration from foreign design and manufacturing methods. Always focus on understanding and mastery, not just importing. Innovating on the basis of acquired skills, and not only aiming at breakage, can significantly reduce research cycles and ensure the technological progress of products. "

To conclude on the question, the head of design of the 611 Chengdu Institute adds: "Finally, and this is probably one of the most important points also when we talk about research and development - We must have enough adequate basic infrastructure. Assisted at the time by SASTIND, Chengdu has built a large number of equipment and ground infrastructure to support the development of the J-10 program, such as simulators and integration benches (Iron Bird). They played the role of accelerator in the project of flight tests of the engine with vector thrust, on the J-10B, for example. "

2019-01-08-J-20-chasseur-Next-Gen-Interview-ing%C3%A9nieur-en-chef-AVIC-Chengdu-01-1024x683.jpg

The prototype J-10B with the vector-driven engine, in public demonstration flight.
The interview then continues on the J-20 but this time around an essential element for a new generation hunter, namely its maintainability, a point that had not yet been addressed by the Chinese media so far. .

It is learned that the new Chinese Air Force spearhead is equipped with a health management system and failure prognosis to increase availability and reduce the cost of the aircraft's life cycle. It is also equipped with an automatic logistic support system to facilitate logistical tasks around the aircraft following the missions.

The first is to establish a layered diagnostic system, collecting and then merging the component-level data before going back to the aircraft level, to be able to analyze the state of the aircraft as a whole and isolate the failures. This makes it possible to anticipate failures following the "symptoms", to go from curative to preventive, and to manage the "health" of the aircraft instead of focusing on the "first breakdown".

Note that this J-20 health management system, or the concept behind it, is not entirely new. In the world of civil aviation for example, it is commonly called AHM, for Aircraft Health Management or Aircraft Health Monitoring , which has been the subject of very thorough research since the early 2000s. Studies conducted by major aircraft manufacturers as Airbus and Boeing as well as
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have shown that significant cost reductions can be achieved through this concept.

As for the integrated logistics support system, the idea is not only to trigger logistics tickets (refueling, reloading ...) depending on the mission, but also to connect to the design, manufacturing and maintenance data around it. of the aircraft to ensure alignment of the data status "As-Design", "As-Built", "As-Maintained" and "As-Modified".

The integration of these two systems has allowed, according to WANG and according to the returns (of the Chinese army), to significantly increase the ability to monitor the condition of each aircraft in detail, improve the maintainability and the availability of aircraft and fleet, and reduce the operational lifecycle cost (LCC).

"Improving the ability to keep the aircraft in operational condition is somehow increasing the number of usable planes and their combat performance," says WANG.

  • 2019-01-08-J-20-chasseur-Next-Gen-Interview-ing%C3%A9nieur-en-chef-AVIC-Chengdu-02-1024x576.jpg
  • 2019-01-08-J-20-chasseur-Next-Gen-Interview-ing%C3%A9nieur-en-chef-AVIC-Chengdu-03-1024x576.jpg
  • 2019-01-08-J-20-chasseur-Next-Gen-Interview-ing%C3%A9nieur-en-chef-AVIC-Chengdu-04-1024x576.jpg
Finally, on the question of the next-generation hunter, "Next Gen" as written in other countries, WANG has a rather reserved stance compared to his predecessor, YANG Wei, who is also the chief engineer of the J-program. 20, and reveals much less about the progress made by the Chinese consulting firm today.

If
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(5th in the Chinese classification) in March last year, and does not deny about the existence of pre-study projects in this sense WANG has simply indicated that the next chief engineer of the Chinese Next Gen fighter will most likely be selected from the brightest designers of J-10 and J-20, who have an average age of 35 today.

In the face of programs or concepts such as the US Airforce's Air Superiority 2030 (AS 2030) or the Franco-German Future Combat Air System (FCAS), Chengdu's current chief engineer points out that certain technological orientations are commonly accepted and relatively clear - such as the collaboration between piloted aircraft and drones, artificial intelligence, advanced stealth, and omni-directional detection and attack - but some are less so, such as directed and hypersonic weapons, the variable cycle engine, the swarm of drones ... etc.

"We have already started some pre-studies, depending on the modes of war we have chosen, on some of these technological directions while completing with others," says WANG, without giving any precise timeline, "and we will see possibly these works turn into a concrete product by 2035 or even closer. "

Henri K.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
China eyes building next-generation fighter jets by 2035
via jyotish
Liu Xuanzun

2019/2/11

af013290-864b-48e9-ad03-bf9897049e12.jpeg

A J-20 fighter performs at the 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition (Airshow China) in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong Province, Nov. 11, 2018.

China will not fall behind in the global race toward sixth-generation fighter jets and is expected to build its own next-generation fighter jets by 2035, said a leading Chinese fighter jet specialist.

China's sixth-generation fighter will come into being by 2035 or earlier, said Wang Haifeng, a chief architect at Chengdu Aircraft Research and Design Institute who also participated in the development of the J-20 and J-10, reported Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Xi'an-based periodical on national defense industries, in January.

Some new features of a sixth-generation fighter jet include the ability to command drones, artificial intelligence and even higher stealth capability through aerodynamic design, the periodical reported.

New technologies, such as laser, adaptive engines, hypersonic weapons and swarm warfare, might also be part on the new aircraft, Wang said, noting that China will choose some of these features and add others that best suit China's needs.

France and Germany announced that they will jointly build a next-generation combat jet system, which is expected to be operational by 2040, Reuters reported last week.

The UK unveiled its sixth-generation fighter jet development program named Tempest in July 2018, and will invite India to join its co-development aircraft program, the Business Standard reported on Friday.

Other countries including the US, Russia and Japan are also reportedly developing their own sixth-generation fighter jets. Although they remain in the concept stage, the new fighters are likely to emerge in the 2030s or 2040s, the National Interest reported.

A generation gap means the sixth-generation warplanes would easily top fifth-generation ones including the US' F-22 and China's J-20, analysts said.

Although China has yet to officially reveal a plan on its next-generation fighter jet, which hardly comes as a surprise as the country seldom announces any in-development weaponry, it may have already started related research and development, a Beijing-based military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Monday.

"China's tradition is to have one generation in service, a new one in development and a next-generation under study. Now that the J-20 is already in service, the development for a new aircraft is also underway," the expert forecast.

The generational standards for fighter jets have been defined mainly by Western countries but not future standards, said J-20's chief designer Yang Wei in a China Central Television program, noting that China will design very different aircraft in the future through true innovation.

China has also constructed a 6,620-ton, 17,000-cubic-meter FL-62 continuous transonic wind tunnel that will be critical in "shaping China's future fighter jet," said a statement released by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China in September.

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siegecrossbow

General
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Here is what @Bltizo has to think regarding this subject.

With the
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entering service with front line combat units in the PLA Air Force (PLAAF), it is likely that the initial variant of the J-20 is approaching the completion of its development program. This marks a suitable time to start considering what is known, rumored, and not known in regard to Chinese stealth fighter initiatives beyond the J-20.

In particular, this piece will review the likely trajectory of the carrier based 5th generation fighter intended for the PLA Navy (PLAN), as well as early indicators for prospective Chinese 6th generation fighters. Given the secretive nature of the topic matter as well as the long timelines involved for Chinese 6th generation efforts, much of this piece is preliminary and likely subject to change as new information comes to light in coming years.

A Carrierborne FC-31?

Rumors of a carrierborne 5th generation fighter began to emerge not long after the first
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prototype made its first flight in early 2011. When the export oriented
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airframe then emerged in October 2012, its smaller size and more conventional configuration and externally more sturdy appearing landing gear oriented speculation toward whether the FC-31 would be developed into a carrierborne fighter.

For a number of years, rumors suggested carrierborne variants of both the J-20 from Chengdu and the FC-31 from Shenyang were engaged in a contest to be the PLAN’s carrierborne 5th generation fighter. The two baseline aircraft occupied different weight categories, with the J-20 being the heavier and larger of the two, and debates on open forums often considered the benefits and costs of one design over the other. In December 2016, an improved second prototype of the FC-31 flew with some major structural modifications to its canopy, wings and tails, however this second airframe did not feature any modifications suggestive of intended carrier compatibility

In the last two years however, some rumors have suggested that the PLAN has finally settled on the FC-31 airframe as the basis for its 5th generation carrierborne fighter. The exact designation of this aircraft is not known, but it has sometimes been designated as “J-35” on Chinese language PLA boards, though the seriousness of the name is unknown. Some
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articles have suggested the PLA seeks a J-20 variant for a carrierborne fighter variant, but to the best of this author’s knowledge this is contrary to the consensus of Chinese language military watching boards.

The Role of a 5th Generation Carrier Fighter

The parameters of a carrierborne FC-31 variant/J-35 aren’t known, though some rumors have suggested the aircraft may have a maximum takeoff weight of about 30 tons (similar to the F-35). The aircraft would be initially powered by two nine ton thrust class WS-13E engines (improved Chinese copies of RD-93), and to be later powered by 10-11 ton thrust WS-19 engines in the late 2020s (in a thrust class of F414 or EJ200). The use of interim engines for the carrierborne FC-31 variant will not be dissimilar from the J-20’s use of interim engines prior to receiving intended its WS-15s. However, there have been some indications that the WS-19’s
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may be slightly shorter than the WS-15, as it may have benefited from cross applicable research and development originally conducted for the WS-15.

The aircraft will almost certainly have reinforced landing gear, folding wings and a tailhook for carrier operations, as well as a catapult compatible nose gear for operations aboard the PLAN’s future catapult carriers such as 003 and beyond. The carrierborne 5th generation fighter is currently projected to make its appearance in late 2019 or early 2020 at the earliest, however it’s not known how long the aircraft may take to develop before entry into service. Certain factors may favor a longer development period (such as it being a 5th generation carrierborne fighter), but other factors might compress it somewhat as well (such as Shenyang having flown two preceding demonstrators for many years, and possible adaptation of J-20 subsystems and avionics in it).

Another major unknown factor is whether additional J-15 aircraft will be produced for Chinese aircraft carriers before the 5th generation carrier fighter enters service (which would not be before than the mid 2020s at the earliest). A catapult compatible J-15 testbed has been developed and trialed, and an electronic warfare ski jump compatible J-15 prototype is also in testing, however at present there are no indications that additional J-15s have been constructed beyond the initial 24 airframes. It goes without saying that a modernized, catapult compatible J-15 could act as a stopgap for a 5th generation carrier fighter as well as to complement it in a similar way to how U.S. Navy Super Hornets will complement F-35Cs. But at present there are no indications of continued J-15 production despite testing of at least one new advanced variant.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Continued...

The World Beyond the 5th Generation

A number of nations around the world have started programs to develop fighter aircraft beyond what is currently known as 5th generation fighters. These tentative 6th generation programs are currently in their infancy and remain appropriately secretive.

The United States is currently
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the closely guarded Penetrating Counter Air (PCA) as part of its “Next Generation Air Dominance” concept, with a goal of entering service as
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as 2030 for the U.S. Air Force, as well as a U.S. Navy project called F/A-XX
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for a similar date into service. The
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Future Combat Air System (FCAS) is a similar next generation fighter project intended for entry into service by
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. The UK’s
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has been stated to enter service by 2035. All of these publicly announced projects remain relatively early in development and have been variously described as “next generation” or “sixth generation” by commentators and defense media over time.


However, the exact subsystems and technological advances that may prove to be decisive in “6th generation” fighters are unclear. Various systems have been posited as potential advancements to expect from next generation air combat systems, including integration of unmanned aircraft into manned-unmanned teaming (MUMT), artificial intelligence, system of systems warfighting concepts, long range and endurance, broadband stealth, future propulsion systems such as variable cycle engines (VCEs), and directed energy weapons (DEWs).

The exact configuration of these future air combat systems may not be known, but at present it appears that a manned fighter aircraft will still play a central role despite heavy hints of MUMT and system of systems approaches. If the relationship between 5th generation and 4.5th generation aircraft are any guide, it is very possible that certain future technologies for “6th generation” aircraft may be applied on current 5th generation aircraft to become “5.5th generation” in turn.

Hints of a next generation fighter

The PLA and Chinese aerospace industry has made impressive advances in recent years and decades to close technological gaps with other leading world military powers. As nations around the world begin to develop 6th generation fighter aircraft and next generation air combat systems, it is likely that China has begun to conduct research and development along similar lines. Assuming that China is aiming to field their equivalent of a 6th generation fighter along a similar time period to U.S., UK and European concepts, pre-research would have likely begun quite a few years ago.

Given traditional Chinese opacity towards leading edge military advances, it was expected that many years might pass until official acknowledgement of a next generation fighter project.

However in early January 2019, the WeChat account of AVIC Times
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an interview with Dr. Wang Haifeng, the current chief designer of Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC). One section in the interview provided some surprisingly candid statements regarding a next generation fighter concept.


In this section, Wang first comments on the next generation fighter concepts that have emerged from the U.S. and from Europe. He then lists various technologies that he believes will likely become important in that generation of aircraft such as MUMT, artificial intelligence, very high stealth, omnidirectional sensors and weapons, as well as other less certain technologies such as VCEs, DEWs, hypersonic weapons, and swarming technology.

Astonishingly, he then states that not only has China already been conducting pre-research for a next generation fighter, but also that he predicts current efforts will progress to become weapons to “defend the seas and skies” by 2035 or earlier. Considering the context of the sentence and the choice of words used – specifically “defend the seas and skies,” as opposed to “first appearance” or “emergence” – the interpretation from Wang’s statement is that he expects a next generation Chinese fighter to be in service by 2035 or earlier. Much uncertainty remains currently as to what exactly a 6th generation air combat concept may look like, however it appears a future manned fighter may be part of it for China.

Beyond this statement, there have been other hints that research and development into relevant subsystems has been ongoing. In an
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from China’s Science and Technology Awards in June 2018, Liu Youngquan of Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) stated that advancements in developing variable cycle engines have been made, including developing key verification technologies and construction of a key technology system. In fact, as early as 2012, Zhang Jian of the preceding AVIC Engine Company
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that China was conducting research and development into variable cycle engines. Chinese interest in MUMT have also been
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, with multiple unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) programs known to be ongoing, and a swarming UAV
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from Zhuhai Airshow 2018 depicted a generic tailless future fighter controlling swarms of drones.
 
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