PLA next/6th generation fighter thread
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
6th generation aircraft will still me manned
it might have pilotless option but will still be manned
it might have pilotless option but will still be manned
Jura The idiot
General
... until it starts raining LOL
You can always fly above the rain. The longest Chinese laser system to date has a range of 4 km. This is about the same as the max range of a gun system. It'd need to reach at least 10 km, which would give it 10 seconds to shoot down a Mach 4 missile, and be miniaturizable onto an aircraft, before it's viable to end missile-land.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Laser systems have potential but not quite yet as offensive weapons the power requirements and limitations of current lasers I think make it better suited to a defence. Unlike a gun system that is fixed. A laser can traverse. That said again power limits come into play. It will take time for the laser turret to cool and the fighters power plant to build up the charge to cycle again.
Another tech that is being looked at is defensive missiles. Smaller interceptor missiles that can be carried in greater numbers and fired against incoming air to air missiles or potentially even enemy fighters.
Another tech that is being looked at is defensive missiles. Smaller interceptor missiles that can be carried in greater numbers and fired against incoming air to air missiles or potentially even enemy fighters.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Interview with head of CAC Wang Haifeng
The Chinese hunter post J-20 from 2035?
BY
"Producing X-1 generation equipment, developing X generation, pre-studying X + 1 generation" (生产 一代, 研制 一代, 预 研 一代), is the rule followed by Chinese manufacturers for several decades. year. In today's day when the J-10C and J-16 fighters are currently in the mass production stage and the J-20 still in development - although the latter has already entered service - how do the thinkers of the military aviation industry in China see the generation X + 1, ie the "6th generation" according to the US and Russian classification, or "5th" for the Chinese, sometimes gives valuable indications on the devices that will appear after the J- 20 within 15 to 20 years.
Aerotime, the state media specialized in aeronautics manufacturing, recently published its interview with WANG Hai Feng (王海峰), the new chief engineer of the 611 Chengdu Institute.
It is in this office of the aircraft manufacturer AVIC that many hunters and drones Chinese have emerged since 1970, as J-7, J-9, J-10, J-20, FC-1 / JF-17 and Wing Loong, as well as .
Former student of SONG Wen Cong (宋文 骢) - who was responsible for the J-10 program, member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, and especially the one who defined in 2001 the aerodynamic framework of the J-20 known today Hui - WANG has been involved in almost all of the 611 Institute's programs for the last 30 years, and is currently leading several pre-study projects such as Vector Driven Thrust and Turbine-Based Combined Cycle Engine (TBCC ). , and also the next-generation hunter (post J-20).
Asked about the question to know what was put in place to allow a relatively short development cycle of the J-20, namely the official launch of the project in October 2007, the first flight in January 2011 and the entry into service announced in February 2018, WANG mentions four essential points.
"Whatever the project it is inseparable with pre-studies. When a project meets the operational needs expressed at a point in time up to a certain limit, pre-studies help to better understand and explore new concepts and new technologies, "said the 55-year-old chief engineer. In Chengdu, pre-study teams are never detached from concrete projects, so they can look where to put their feet, while raising their heads to look where we go. "
He goes on to say: "The success of J-10 and J-20 development is based on the fundamental pre-studies conducted in the 1960s around the duck configuration. When SONG and the other people saw the potential of this configuration, especially at the fitness level, they decided to do a lot of wind tunnel tests to master the concept, and all this work (via the J-9 project which was subsequently canceled (Ed)) served as a technological reserve for the following programs. "
"In three, you have to remember that the key technologies in Defense can not be bought, but one can always draw inspiration from foreign design and manufacturing methods. Always focus on understanding and mastery, not just importing. Innovating on the basis of acquired skills, and not only aiming at breakage, can significantly reduce research cycles and ensure the technological progress of products. "
To conclude on the question, the head of design of the 611 Chengdu Institute adds: "Finally, and this is probably one of the most important points also when we talk about research and development - We must have enough adequate basic infrastructure. Assisted at the time by SASTIND, Chengdu has built a large number of equipment and ground infrastructure to support the development of the J-10 program, such as simulators and integration benches (Iron Bird). They played the role of accelerator in the project of flight tests of the engine with vector thrust, on the J-10B, for example. "
The prototype J-10B with the vector-driven engine, in public demonstration flight.
The interview then continues on the J-20 but this time around an essential element for a new generation hunter, namely its maintainability, a point that had not yet been addressed by the Chinese media so far. .
It is learned that the new Chinese Air Force spearhead is equipped with a health management system and failure prognosis to increase availability and reduce the cost of the aircraft's life cycle. It is also equipped with an automatic logistic support system to facilitate logistical tasks around the aircraft following the missions.
The first is to establish a layered diagnostic system, collecting and then merging the component-level data before going back to the aircraft level, to be able to analyze the state of the aircraft as a whole and isolate the failures. This makes it possible to anticipate failures following the "symptoms", to go from curative to preventive, and to manage the "health" of the aircraft instead of focusing on the "first breakdown".
Note that this J-20 health management system, or the concept behind it, is not entirely new. In the world of civil aviation for example, it is commonly called AHM, for Aircraft Health Management or Aircraft Health Monitoring , which has been the subject of very thorough research since the early 2000s. Studies conducted by major aircraft manufacturers as Airbus and Boeing as well as have shown that significant cost reductions can be achieved through this concept.
As for the integrated logistics support system, the idea is not only to trigger logistics tickets (refueling, reloading ...) depending on the mission, but also to connect to the design, manufacturing and maintenance data around it. of the aircraft to ensure alignment of the data status "As-Design", "As-Built", "As-Maintained" and "As-Modified".
The integration of these two systems has allowed, according to WANG and according to the returns (of the Chinese army), to significantly increase the ability to monitor the condition of each aircraft in detail, improve the maintainability and the availability of aircraft and fleet, and reduce the operational lifecycle cost (LCC).
"Improving the ability to keep the aircraft in operational condition is somehow increasing the number of usable planes and their combat performance," says WANG.
If (5th in the Chinese classification) in March last year, and does not deny about the existence of pre-study projects in this sense WANG has simply indicated that the next chief engineer of the Chinese Next Gen fighter will most likely be selected from the brightest designers of J-10 and J-20, who have an average age of 35 today.
In the face of programs or concepts such as the US Airforce's Air Superiority 2030 (AS 2030) or the Franco-German Future Combat Air System (FCAS), Chengdu's current chief engineer points out that certain technological orientations are commonly accepted and relatively clear - such as the collaboration between piloted aircraft and drones, artificial intelligence, advanced stealth, and omni-directional detection and attack - but some are less so, such as directed and hypersonic weapons, the variable cycle engine, the swarm of drones ... etc.
"We have already started some pre-studies, depending on the modes of war we have chosen, on some of these technological directions while completing with others," says WANG, without giving any precise timeline, "and we will see possibly these works turn into a concrete product by 2035 or even closer. "
Henri K.
The Chinese hunter post J-20 from 2035?
BY
"Producing X-1 generation equipment, developing X generation, pre-studying X + 1 generation" (生产 一代, 研制 一代, 预 研 一代), is the rule followed by Chinese manufacturers for several decades. year. In today's day when the J-10C and J-16 fighters are currently in the mass production stage and the J-20 still in development - although the latter has already entered service - how do the thinkers of the military aviation industry in China see the generation X + 1, ie the "6th generation" according to the US and Russian classification, or "5th" for the Chinese, sometimes gives valuable indications on the devices that will appear after the J- 20 within 15 to 20 years.
Aerotime, the state media specialized in aeronautics manufacturing, recently published its interview with WANG Hai Feng (王海峰), the new chief engineer of the 611 Chengdu Institute.
It is in this office of the aircraft manufacturer AVIC that many hunters and drones Chinese have emerged since 1970, as J-7, J-9, J-10, J-20, FC-1 / JF-17 and Wing Loong, as well as .
Former student of SONG Wen Cong (宋文 骢) - who was responsible for the J-10 program, member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, and especially the one who defined in 2001 the aerodynamic framework of the J-20 known today Hui - WANG has been involved in almost all of the 611 Institute's programs for the last 30 years, and is currently leading several pre-study projects such as Vector Driven Thrust and Turbine-Based Combined Cycle Engine (TBCC ). , and also the next-generation hunter (post J-20).
Asked about the question to know what was put in place to allow a relatively short development cycle of the J-20, namely the official launch of the project in October 2007, the first flight in January 2011 and the entry into service announced in February 2018, WANG mentions four essential points.
"Whatever the project it is inseparable with pre-studies. When a project meets the operational needs expressed at a point in time up to a certain limit, pre-studies help to better understand and explore new concepts and new technologies, "said the 55-year-old chief engineer. In Chengdu, pre-study teams are never detached from concrete projects, so they can look where to put their feet, while raising their heads to look where we go. "
He goes on to say: "The success of J-10 and J-20 development is based on the fundamental pre-studies conducted in the 1960s around the duck configuration. When SONG and the other people saw the potential of this configuration, especially at the fitness level, they decided to do a lot of wind tunnel tests to master the concept, and all this work (via the J-9 project which was subsequently canceled (Ed)) served as a technological reserve for the following programs. "
"In three, you have to remember that the key technologies in Defense can not be bought, but one can always draw inspiration from foreign design and manufacturing methods. Always focus on understanding and mastery, not just importing. Innovating on the basis of acquired skills, and not only aiming at breakage, can significantly reduce research cycles and ensure the technological progress of products. "
To conclude on the question, the head of design of the 611 Chengdu Institute adds: "Finally, and this is probably one of the most important points also when we talk about research and development - We must have enough adequate basic infrastructure. Assisted at the time by SASTIND, Chengdu has built a large number of equipment and ground infrastructure to support the development of the J-10 program, such as simulators and integration benches (Iron Bird). They played the role of accelerator in the project of flight tests of the engine with vector thrust, on the J-10B, for example. "
The prototype J-10B with the vector-driven engine, in public demonstration flight.
The interview then continues on the J-20 but this time around an essential element for a new generation hunter, namely its maintainability, a point that had not yet been addressed by the Chinese media so far. .
It is learned that the new Chinese Air Force spearhead is equipped with a health management system and failure prognosis to increase availability and reduce the cost of the aircraft's life cycle. It is also equipped with an automatic logistic support system to facilitate logistical tasks around the aircraft following the missions.
The first is to establish a layered diagnostic system, collecting and then merging the component-level data before going back to the aircraft level, to be able to analyze the state of the aircraft as a whole and isolate the failures. This makes it possible to anticipate failures following the "symptoms", to go from curative to preventive, and to manage the "health" of the aircraft instead of focusing on the "first breakdown".
Note that this J-20 health management system, or the concept behind it, is not entirely new. In the world of civil aviation for example, it is commonly called AHM, for Aircraft Health Management or Aircraft Health Monitoring , which has been the subject of very thorough research since the early 2000s. Studies conducted by major aircraft manufacturers as Airbus and Boeing as well as have shown that significant cost reductions can be achieved through this concept.
As for the integrated logistics support system, the idea is not only to trigger logistics tickets (refueling, reloading ...) depending on the mission, but also to connect to the design, manufacturing and maintenance data around it. of the aircraft to ensure alignment of the data status "As-Design", "As-Built", "As-Maintained" and "As-Modified".
The integration of these two systems has allowed, according to WANG and according to the returns (of the Chinese army), to significantly increase the ability to monitor the condition of each aircraft in detail, improve the maintainability and the availability of aircraft and fleet, and reduce the operational lifecycle cost (LCC).
"Improving the ability to keep the aircraft in operational condition is somehow increasing the number of usable planes and their combat performance," says WANG.
If (5th in the Chinese classification) in March last year, and does not deny about the existence of pre-study projects in this sense WANG has simply indicated that the next chief engineer of the Chinese Next Gen fighter will most likely be selected from the brightest designers of J-10 and J-20, who have an average age of 35 today.
In the face of programs or concepts such as the US Airforce's Air Superiority 2030 (AS 2030) or the Franco-German Future Combat Air System (FCAS), Chengdu's current chief engineer points out that certain technological orientations are commonly accepted and relatively clear - such as the collaboration between piloted aircraft and drones, artificial intelligence, advanced stealth, and omni-directional detection and attack - but some are less so, such as directed and hypersonic weapons, the variable cycle engine, the swarm of drones ... etc.
"We have already started some pre-studies, depending on the modes of war we have chosen, on some of these technological directions while completing with others," says WANG, without giving any precise timeline, "and we will see possibly these works turn into a concrete product by 2035 or even closer. "
Henri K.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
China eyes building next-generation fighter jets by 2035
via jyotish
Liu Xuanzun
2019/2/11
A J-20 fighter performs at the 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition (Airshow China) in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong Province, Nov. 11, 2018.
China will not fall behind in the global race toward sixth-generation fighter jets and is expected to build its own next-generation fighter jets by 2035, said a leading Chinese fighter jet specialist.
China's sixth-generation fighter will come into being by 2035 or earlier, said Wang Haifeng, a chief architect at Chengdu Aircraft Research and Design Institute who also participated in the development of the J-20 and J-10, reported Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Xi'an-based periodical on national defense industries, in January.
Some new features of a sixth-generation fighter jet include the ability to command drones, artificial intelligence and even higher stealth capability through aerodynamic design, the periodical reported.
New technologies, such as laser, adaptive engines, hypersonic weapons and swarm warfare, might also be part on the new aircraft, Wang said, noting that China will choose some of these features and add others that best suit China's needs.
France and Germany announced that they will jointly build a next-generation combat jet system, which is expected to be operational by 2040, Reuters reported last week.
The UK unveiled its sixth-generation fighter jet development program named Tempest in July 2018, and will invite India to join its co-development aircraft program, the Business Standard reported on Friday.
Other countries including the US, Russia and Japan are also reportedly developing their own sixth-generation fighter jets. Although they remain in the concept stage, the new fighters are likely to emerge in the 2030s or 2040s, the National Interest reported.
A generation gap means the sixth-generation warplanes would easily top fifth-generation ones including the US' F-22 and China's J-20, analysts said.
Although China has yet to officially reveal a plan on its next-generation fighter jet, which hardly comes as a surprise as the country seldom announces any in-development weaponry, it may have already started related research and development, a Beijing-based military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Monday.
"China's tradition is to have one generation in service, a new one in development and a next-generation under study. Now that the J-20 is already in service, the development for a new aircraft is also underway," the expert forecast.
The generational standards for fighter jets have been defined mainly by Western countries but not future standards, said J-20's chief designer Yang Wei in a China Central Television program, noting that China will design very different aircraft in the future through true innovation.
China has also constructed a 6,620-ton, 17,000-cubic-meter FL-62 continuous transonic wind tunnel that will be critical in "shaping China's future fighter jet," said a statement released by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China in September.
via jyotish
Liu Xuanzun
2019/2/11
A J-20 fighter performs at the 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition (Airshow China) in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong Province, Nov. 11, 2018.
China will not fall behind in the global race toward sixth-generation fighter jets and is expected to build its own next-generation fighter jets by 2035, said a leading Chinese fighter jet specialist.
China's sixth-generation fighter will come into being by 2035 or earlier, said Wang Haifeng, a chief architect at Chengdu Aircraft Research and Design Institute who also participated in the development of the J-20 and J-10, reported Ordnance Industry Science Technology, a Xi'an-based periodical on national defense industries, in January.
Some new features of a sixth-generation fighter jet include the ability to command drones, artificial intelligence and even higher stealth capability through aerodynamic design, the periodical reported.
New technologies, such as laser, adaptive engines, hypersonic weapons and swarm warfare, might also be part on the new aircraft, Wang said, noting that China will choose some of these features and add others that best suit China's needs.
France and Germany announced that they will jointly build a next-generation combat jet system, which is expected to be operational by 2040, Reuters reported last week.
The UK unveiled its sixth-generation fighter jet development program named Tempest in July 2018, and will invite India to join its co-development aircraft program, the Business Standard reported on Friday.
Other countries including the US, Russia and Japan are also reportedly developing their own sixth-generation fighter jets. Although they remain in the concept stage, the new fighters are likely to emerge in the 2030s or 2040s, the National Interest reported.
A generation gap means the sixth-generation warplanes would easily top fifth-generation ones including the US' F-22 and China's J-20, analysts said.
Although China has yet to officially reveal a plan on its next-generation fighter jet, which hardly comes as a surprise as the country seldom announces any in-development weaponry, it may have already started related research and development, a Beijing-based military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Monday.
"China's tradition is to have one generation in service, a new one in development and a next-generation under study. Now that the J-20 is already in service, the development for a new aircraft is also underway," the expert forecast.
The generational standards for fighter jets have been defined mainly by Western countries but not future standards, said J-20's chief designer Yang Wei in a China Central Television program, noting that China will design very different aircraft in the future through true innovation.
China has also constructed a 6,620-ton, 17,000-cubic-meter FL-62 continuous transonic wind tunnel that will be critical in "shaping China's future fighter jet," said a statement released by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China in September.
Continued...