PLA Navy news, pics and videos

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
But despite similarities to the Mulberry bridges, this design of bridge barge will likely be deployed in a different way and have different safety requirements for their deployment.

What similarity does this have to the Mulberry system? The similarity is that they are both ship-to-shore connectors using roadways ... and there all similarities end.

Mulberry didn't use elevated roadway "bridges". It used floating pontoon roadways.
The PLAN system, as can be seen, utilises elevated roadways, thereby bypassing much of the onerous harbour construction requirements of the Mulberry system.

The Mulberries were more modular and had more numerous types of component sub-vessels. The Mulberries had at their head specially designed beaching craft, so-called "gooseberries" that were relatively cheap and simple yet ruggedly made (thus if one failed others could take their place), followed by a series of other special-purpose craft behind farther to sea.

The so called modularity is primarily for construction of a function - a miniature harbour to sustain a floating roadway (the floating roadway requires calm waters to function) connecting to an offshore pier for vessels (primarily LSTs) to unload onto.

None of these so called "specially designed beaching crafts" or Gooseberries served any purpose in moving logistics. They were simply there to serve as breakwaters to form the calm harbour-like conditions required for the floating roadway.

Despite the modularity, the Mulberry system was quite fragile. As can be seen by the American Mulberry being wrecked by the storm of 19-21 June. It is also highly probable that the PLAN system will be more survivable against similar weather conditions as well as being operational in higher sea states than the Mulberry system was.

In contrast, new variants are all seemingly roughly of similar design, just at different scale, and all very sophisticated. Their relative complexity and high cost may actually be a vulnerability, insofar as they are likely going to be too expensive to risk getting close to shore until the land, sea, and air environments around the beaches completely clear.

Again, there is nothing roughly similar between;
Mulberry system - a floating pier for unloading connected to the beach via a floating roadway running within an artificial "harbour".
PLAN landing barges - a series of jacked platforms forming an elevated roadway linking ship to shore thereby isolating operations from the sea state below.

For instance, the first sub-components of the Mulberries were beached within hours of the attack, and it is debatable whether beaches can be cleared nearly so quickly in a Cross-straits scenario for these kind of ships.

This is the biggest gross misconception.

Elements of Mulberry construction started on D+1 BUT it took till D+10 for the first Mulberry A roadway on Omaha beach to accept the very first vehicle unloaded from the Lobnitz piers on the seaward end of the Mulberry system.

Prior to D+9, LSTs had to beach directly to maintain supply for the landed forces as opposed to docking onto the Mulberry Lobnitz piers.

That single roadway operational on Mulberry A (out of 3 planned roadways) effectively doubled the daily supply tonnage landed on Omaha.

Note - On the D-Day timeline, planned operational use of the Mulberry harbour was for D+12.

For those not too familiar, the planned backbone of the cross channel D-Day supply chain was the LSTs. ~100m long with 2k tons of cargo capacity each. They could beach directly and offload via the bow ramps but the cycle for that method of operation is slow and limited. The problem with beaching directly is the unload cycle time - approximately 12 hours from beaching, waiting for tide to recede, unload, wait for tide to come in, refloat and unbeach to sail back to UK ports for next round of cargo.

The Mulberry piers shortened this dramatically to just 1+ hour. Time saved on unloading means faster cycles means less LSTs required to maintain the required supply throughput ... and the landing forces barely had enough LSTs for requirements as it was. Mulberry was crucial for the operational planning to go ahead with D-Day without first (or very quickly) capturing a port for supply purposes.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Further, the types of equipment these jackup vessels will have to be on guard against are much more sophisticated and more deadly than anything the Mulberry designs had to deal with, from manpads to loitering munitions and undersea explosives, etc., the range of threats is just much greater. If I were an enemy combatant, those jackup legs would certainly be an attractive target!

This is where my inner engineer says, "sometimes simpler is better."

Both systems are static and are therefore equally vulnerable.

Any system capable of targeting individual jack up legs will be equally capable of targeting the various subcomponents vital to any system.
 
Last edited:

by78

General
Satellite images of the large landing barges.

54689350657_f8441c6cfc_o.jpg
54690418539_510a8b3903_o.jpg
 

jnd85

New Member
Registered Member
What similarity does this have to the Mulberry system? The similarity is that they are both ship-to-shore connectors using roadways

Thank you for being more succinct than I could ever be.

Of course the biggest difference between the two systems is that one was developed entirely in secret, and the other's photos are being discussed and nitpicked in forums years before deployment.

I am not joking or being sarcastic. Beyond structural design differences, the single biggest difference between the two is the openness of it all.

I also agree with the last similarity to Mulberry you point out:
Both systems are static and are therefore equally vulnerable.

So, what does that tell us about how the these barges are meant to be used?

Firstly, secrecy apparently not being a concern, the bridge barges are likely equal parts psychological weapon and transport system. To be so open either reflects the lack of care that comes with extreme confidence, or is part of an intentional strategy. I don't rule out the former but the latter seems more likely.

Secondly, as they are highly vulnerable and expensive, we can assume the bridge barges will not be put in harms way. So they will likely not be part of an initial wave. Wherever they are to beach will be subjected to intense bombing and shelling with a very large radius to completely clear the area in advance.

Thirdly, since the bridge barges themselves are not the surprise, there must presumably be some other surprise. One can only assume that surprise will be:
  • the timing, speed and intensity of the attack
  • the sophistication of its coordination
  • the specific landing sites
And while the barges may be vulnerable to specific countermeasures (I'm looking at you, legs! ;) ), it will likely be difficult to implement such countermeasures accross the entire 360° of beachable coastline.

So going back to your point about the dissimilarities with the Mulberries, these barges are much more mobile and so will be able in theory to land at several points simultaneously. They may even do so opportunistically as this beach or that is cleared rather than following a specific order.
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
So, what does that tell us about how the these barges are meant to be used?

Firstly, secrecy apparently not being a concern, the bridge barges are likely equal parts psychological weapon and transport system. To be so open either reflects the lack of care that comes with extreme confidence, or is part of an intentional strategy. I don't rule out the former but the latter seems more likely.
The Chinese official media has never acknowledged them so clearly they are not psychological weapons.
Secondly, as they are highly vulnerable and expensive, we can assume the bridge barges will not be put in harms way. So they will likely not be part of an initial wave. Wherever they are to beach will be subjected to intense bombing and shelling with a very large radius to completely clear the area in advance.
These barges are very cheap and extremely resilient against attacks. A random low tier Chinese shipyard can pump out half a dozen without anyone noticing. As a reinforced steel structure, it is very resilient to small explosives (see how Ukraine is incapable of knocking out the Kerch bridge). Once set up, it no longer requires buoyancy to float and so is immune to sinking, greatly reducing the effectiveness of anti-ship weapons that are designed to punch holes in ships.
 

Heliox

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thirdly, since the bridge barges themselves are not the surprise, there must presumably be some other surprise. One can only assume that surprise will be:
  • the timing, speed and intensity of the attack
  • the sophistication of its coordination
  • the specific landing sites

Mate, your points apply to all military ops. ALL
(replace "specific landing sites" with "point of attack")

These barges are very cheap and extremely resilient against attacks. A random low tier Chinese shipyard can pump out half a dozen without anyone noticing. As a reinforced steel structure, it is very resilient to small explosives (see how Ukraine is incapable of knocking out the Kerch bridge). Once set up, it no longer requires buoyancy to float and so is immune to sinking, greatly reducing the effectiveness of anti-ship weapons that are designed to punch holes in ships.

Yup.

And what is interesting is comparing against what the US has by comparison ... JLOTS. ;)
 

AndrewJ

Junior Member
Registered Member
(Just in) In a CCTV program this morning showcasing JL-10's manufacture factory, a modified JL-10 with twin tails can be seen from the background. Which further confirms our previous speculations, that China is building a carrier-based trainer! :eek:

The new aircraft is modified from JL-10. It can be also used as a light combat aircraft, more like a smaller version of Super Hornet F/A-18E/F. The new naval trainer will significantly reduce PLANAF training cost, boost naval talent & experience, and also can relieve the current scheduling difficulties that no available small wings on Chinese carriers.

We've already witnessed it from mockups on CNS Fujian sometime before!

Full video:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The new trainer is on the very left of the pic. Normal JL-10 has only one tail, the new one has two!

twin-tail JL-10.jpg
1754016530324.png

Previous JL-10 mockups on Fujian's deck:

mockups.jpg


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:
Top