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O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Southfront, like Sputnik and others, are quite inaccurate. If you look at the details of what they're presenting, they get so many things wrong. Starting with the names of the hardware they are referring to. Propaganda and lies can work for or against a group but at the end of the day, they are untrue.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
POP3
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解放台湾之利器——谈055型驱逐舰的对陆攻击能力。
中国海军055型驱逐舰首舰于2017年6月28日下水，2018年8月24日开始试航，期间历经14个月，这说明其预舾装率极高，试验工作也较为顺利。中国海军早已推动舰艇的预舾装率，较为典型的是在056轻型护卫舰批量建造中把预舾装率作为考核指标之一。在055型驱逐舰的建造中也是如此，提高预舾装率有助于加快施工进度、节省建造周期。作为055型舰的首制舰，该舰建造和试验工作上的经验也必将对后续舰产生指导性的作用，对后续舰的建造和试验进度的加快有很大的意思。
055型舰首航是进行平台试验，在平台试验完成的基础上再进行作战系统试验，此类标准操作程序笔者以前曾多次讲解，这里不再赘言。055型舰是中国自主设计建造的万吨级驱逐舰，可承担多类不同的使命任务，如可与其它水面、水下舰艇组成海上联合机动作战编队，也可单独执行任务，还可加入航母编队执行作战任务，具体如何编成则视作战任务而定，并非墨守成规。055型舰的研制成功，还极大增强了我人民海军在登陆作战的火力打击能力，在解放台湾的作战中必将发挥巨大的作用。
中国海军在055型驱逐舰立项综合论证及下达《研制任务书》时，即已将具备对陆攻击作战能力作为055型舰作战使命的一个重要方面进行要求，相关配套的研制工作也早于总体设计开始。在相关配套设备和系统研制成功后，055型驱逐舰的总体研制也就水到渠成。这也是中国海军常见的舰艇研制程序，即先进行需求分析论证，在需求的基础上确定武器发展方向，先进行配套设备和系统的研制，后进行总体型号的具体设计。055型驱逐舰的研制也遵循了这一程序，如国产舰用燃气轮机、通用垂直发射武器系统、单130毫米舰炮等装备研制成功后，055型舰的综合立项审查也就得以批准。
为055型驱逐舰配套的设备及系统在研制成功后，其成果被扩展使用，产生了052D型驱逐舰这一型号。052D型舰与052C型驱逐舰的主要区别在于舰载垂直发射系统等设备的改变，052C型舰装备的AJK03型垂直发射武器系统于1986年开始研制，采用存储、运输、发射一体式贮运箱，每个发射单元的备弹环上可容纳6个贮运箱。由于AJK03型垂直发射系统研制的较早，只能发射HHQ-9型舰对空导弹，在多弹种兼容能力上已无法满足055型驱逐舰的需求，故必须研制新的通用型垂发武器系统以适应新的各类导弹共架发射的需要。该通用垂发武器系统被研制出来后，海军将其配置在052C型舰的成熟平台上，遂诞生了052D型驱逐舰，这也符合海军一贯的“平台一步到位，电子武器持续改进”的发展策略。
通用垂直发射武器系统可兼容发射远程防空导弹、中程防空导弹、反舰巡航导弹和对陆攻击巡航导弹，但目前并无传说中的中段反弹道导弹能力。055舰载反舰及对陆攻击巡航导弹同为YJ-18导弹系列，这是当初YJ-18导弹在立项研制时就赋予的要求。YJ-18导弹为系列化型号，可配置在水面舰和潜艇上，在水面舰和潜艇上都有反舰型号和对陆攻击型号。一些媒体和军事专家说055型驱逐舰配置的是CJ-10型对陆攻击巡航导弹，该说法是完全错误的。YJ-18系列导弹在研制过程中难度极大，并曾因问题较多和进度迟缓而被海军批评，以前在HQ-16舰空导弹研制时，也曾被海军多次严厉批评。但胜利属于成功者，YJ-18系列导弹的研制成功就是胜利者的勋章。
本世纪初期，中国海军的短板较多，当时急需舰对空防御能力，随着054A型护卫舰、051C型和052系列驱逐舰的相继研制成功并服役，舰对空防御能力得到了极大的提高，并位居世界各国舰空防御作战能力的前列。舰艇对陆作战能力也同样是中国海军所急需的，特别是台湾问题尚未解决这一因素。早期中国海军主要依靠舰炮武器实施对陆作战，客观地说，舰炮武器用于支援登陆作战时对登陆场目标的杀伤较能发挥作用，但对纵深、坚固、大面积的目标如机场、指挥所等目标的毁伤能力较差或射程不足。随着YJ-18对陆巡航导弹的研制成功，此短板被迅速补上，中国海军可以从052D型和055型驱逐舰及09IIIB攻击型核潜艇上实施远程对陆攻击作战。
台湾当局为苟延残喘、拒绝统一，在台湾省东部设置了一些重要军事基地，意图依托台湾南北向中央山脉的隔绝作为为屏障，形成大陆的火力死角而无法将其摧毁，从而达到负隅顽抗并对解放军造成威胁的目的。在解放台湾的作战中，我解放军必须具备摧毁台湾东部军事目标的能力，而主要手段一是靠空中打击，用轰炸机等进行直接摧毁，再就是从台湾东部从海上用对陆攻击巡航导弹进行彻底的摧毁。对中国海军而言，发展具有对陆攻击能力的舰艇具有急迫性，随着052D型驱逐舰的批量服役和055型驱逐舰的批量建造，这一短板也终于不再成为问题。
（附图来自网络，向原作者致谢）
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Interesting points (please correct if inaccurate):
  • The Type 055 will play a huge role in a hypothetical Taiwan conflict
  • Adding to the point above, one of its main roles would be land attack
  • The subsystems aboard the 052D were originally developed for the 055
  • The universal VLS is able to launch LRSAM, MRSAM, AShM, or LACM missiles
  • The universal VLS does not yet have midcourse-phase anti-ballistic missile capabilities
  • Both the AShM and LACM used by the 055 come from the YJ-18 family; its LACM is NOT the CJ-10
  • YJ-18 AShM & LACM may be launched from surface ships or submarines (currently on 052D, 055, and 09IIIB)
  • Development of the YJ-18 was extremely arduous and plagued with difficulties
  • Land-attack capabilities will allow the PLAN to prosecute targets in the mountain ranges of Eastern Taiwan
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
SinoSoldier said:
POP3
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Interesting points (please correct if inaccurate):
  • The Type 055 will play a huge role in a hypothetical Taiwan conflict
  • Adding to the point above, one of its main roles would be land attack
  • The subsystems aboard the 052D were originally developed for the 055
  • The universal VLS is able to launch LRSAM , MRSAM , AShM , or LACM missiles
  • The universal VLS does not yet have have midcourse-phase anti-ballistic missile capabilities
  • Both the AShM and LACM used by the 055 come from the YJ-18 family; its LACM is NOT the CJ-10
  • YJ-18 AShM & LACM may be launched from surface ships or submarines (currently on 052D , 055 , and 09IIIB )
  • Development of the YJ-18 was extremely arduous and plagued with difficulties
  • Land-attack capabilities will allow the PLAN to prosecute targets in the mountain ranges of Eastern Taiwan
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It's a shame he's never given details about what the VLS length loadout for 052D (and I suppose 055 too technically) is, afaik. The number of 9m length VLS cells in a ship will determine the limit of a type of missile that could be carried, and the AShM YJ-18 variant can only be carried in the 9m variant.
Though I remember reading somewhere that the land attack variant of YJ-18 is shorter and might be carried in the 7m variant, which would correspond with how the 3M-54/3M-14 family that they would've been derived from
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
With all due respect no one should put life over machine

Machines can be replaced while men can’t

Sad to see people sacrificing their lives for material gain big no no
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What about fire-fighters? When there is no life in danger but only material in danger, should they stop and the see the material burnt to the ground? What if that material is your nuclear research facility, your top project, tones of blueprints etc.? See them burnt to ashes?

These materials are not lives, but they are there because of thousands of people's decades of work, they are the outcome of lives. In a way, one always say "time is life". Isn't it? If people doesn't take risk to save their life-time work, what is the point of work in the first place?

What about solders? If the enemy promise to spare your life if you give up all your properties, land and houses, will you give up a fight to save lives? I am sure your enemy will be glad to make such a deal. In fact, all the wars are about material, all the warriors and heroes fought for material. Through the human history, there is NO hero who is not fighting and dying for material. The "holly land" is material, the river is material, the farming land is material, and they are/were why wars started. Life is not life without material. The very existence of human is material.

P.S. nobody is suicidal, but people take risks and chances. The three would not have done it if they knew a certain death. It is a tragedy, an accident.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Bltizo said:
It's a shame he's never given details about what the VLS length loadout for 052D (and I suppose 055 too technically) is, afaik. The number of 9m length VLS cells in a ship will determine the limit of a type of missile that could be carried, and the AShM YJ-18 variant can only be carried in the 9m variant.
Though I remember reading somewhere that the land attack variant of YJ-18 is shorter and might be carried in the 7m variant, which would correspond with the the 3M-54/3M-14 family that they would've been derived from[/QUOTE ]

It has been claimed (by a fairly credible member "StarMil" or "Interstellar") that the AShM variant of the YJ-18 is 8+ meters long (IIRC), which means that at least some of the cells aboard the 052D are 9 m long.

A few folks have also stated that the LACM variant shouldn't exceed the AShM in length.
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D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
taxiya said:
What about fire-fighters? When there is no life in danger but only material in danger, should they stop and the see the material burnt to the ground? What if that material is your nuclear research facility, your top project, tones of blueprints etc.? See them burnt to ashes?

These materials are not lives, but they are there because of thousands of people's decades of work, they are the outcome of lives. In a way, one always say "time is life". Isn't it? If people doesn't take risk to save their life-time work, what is the point of work in the first place?

What about solders? If the enemy promise to spare your life if you give up all your properties, land and houses, will you give up a fight to save lives? I am sure your enemy will be glad to make such a deal. In fact, all the wars are about material, all the warriors and heroes fought for material. Through the human history, there is NO hero who is not fighting and dying for material. The "holly land" is material, the river is material, the farming land is material, and they are/were why wars started. Life is not life without material. The very existence of human is material.

P.S. nobody is suicidal, but people take risks and chances. The three would not have done it if they knew a certain death. It is a tragedy, an accident.
Click to expand...

Sigh, the examples you gave are not only the hypothetical extremes but also some what flawed. Yes, fire fighters do put their lives at risk when performing their duties, but they always put themselves and other's lives first. They don't go charging into scenarios which are too dangerous to begin with. While the lost of materials and data will always be a huge lost, the people who worked to create those data like these researchers constitutes an even bigger lost. Data can be recreated and recovered, but the brains behind the genius will be irrevocably lost if that person dies.
While we will not likely know the exact details of what actually when down during that accident, suffice to say the researchers should have relegated salvage operations to those who are specifically qualified because not only that is not their job, but also the potential lost that will occur if they are met with mishap is even greater.
A hero is a person who quantifies the risks and gains and decides on the mots productive one even if it is dangerous, a fool is one who rushes in first and weights the risks later.
 
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