Pla Marines

Well, I am just throwing this out because after reading about the Marines in the Sinodefence, I am just wondering how you guys feel about their capabilities. Do you think they are hardcore like the United States Marine Corps.? Also, do you think that the equipment which they field are sufficient for a beachhead assault.
ETC.....................

I honestly don't know that much about the Chinese Marines. This is basically what I know at present:

1. Though they have a long-on-off history, the present PLAN Marine force has only really been around since the late 1970s'/early 1980's.

2. There are at present two PLAN Marine Brigades with amphibious tanks and a high proportion of motorized infantry.

3. They have been experiencing lately an increasing budget and modest expansion/modernization.

4. The PLA already has 2 divisions (and is adding at least 1 more) trained in amphibious warfare.

5. I am under the impression that PLAN Marines may receive about 3 month's combined recruit and infantry training (I may be wrong about this) - contrasted to the USMC's 4.5/5 months combined recruit and infantry training.

I presume that you know more than me about the PLAN Marines; if you could share a little of what you know with the rest of us, we may be better able to share with you what we know about the USMC and together arrive at a much better understanding of how they compare to each other.

Unit 88:

Here are a few things that I know about the USMC -compare them to what you know about the PLAN Marines:

1. Physical Fitness - USMC like a 3 mile run in 24.5 minutes, 60 push-ups, 85 sit-ups, 18 pull-ups, 41 squat-thrusts, and a 300 metre sprint in 41 seconds in either 5 60 metre dashes or 6 50 metre dashes (I've forgotten which, but its to simulate the actions in the Rifle Squad assault), and a 9 mile forced much with full kit in (I think) 3 hours, including across obstacles and at the end of a 54 hour "Sickener-type" exercise.

2. The USMC organizes itself into Marine Expeditionary Forces composed of at least one Marine Division (an MEF HQ can act in much the same way as an Army Corps HQ) and at least one Marine Air Wing (many, many squadrons and other units of fighter-bombers, attack aircraft, forward air control (FAC) aircraft, attack, assault, and transport helicopters, etc.) An MEF can organize Expeditionary Brigades (based on a Marine Infantry Regiment and part of a Marine Air Wing) and Expeditionary Units (based on a Marine Infantry Battalion and supporting Marine Air Wing Units), and possess heavy armour, tracked amphibious APCs and wheeled APCs, medium artillery, light and heavy anti-aircraft units, engineers, lots of reconnaissance troops, etc.

3. The USMC have a long and distinguished history in which their Regimental structure (not exactly the same as the British) helps to retain past lessons learned (unlike US Army and others in which Regiments are here today and gone tomorrow and their members scattered about). Marines often get to serve together for longer periods of time in the same unit, so they not only do not have to keep re-learning the basics, but they can go on to more advanced training and build up both experience and especially the sorts of personal relationships based upon professional trust and competence that make truly professional armies experts in war (and often good friends, or at least good comrades, in peace).

4. The USMC are well-trained by most standards. A US Marine infantryman receives around 20-21 weeks of recruit and infantry training, to fairly high standards of skill and physical fitness, and all must qualify as marksmen by successfully scoring on targets up to 400 metree with the M-16 A2 - something very few armies attempt anymore, if they ever did. Their battlecraft is superior to that of many armies (fieldcraft is sometimes another matter). USMC senior NCO's receive 5 weeks' hard squad and platoon leader's training in order to earn the right to lead Marines (and typically lose 30 or so pounds doing so on their NCO course), and new US Marine Infantry officers receive a full years' training, in addition to their academic development.

5. Their 13 man Rifle Squad is the envy of much of the Infantry world. Composed of a Squad Leader (senior NCO) commanding 3 identical 4 man Fire Teams (each with a light machine gun, grenade launcher, and 3 assault rifels and led by a junior NCO), it is very capable. By the way, Fire Teams were pioineered by the USMC, and allow Rifle Squads/Sections to use fire-and-movement with (potentially) tight control. It has the numbers to take heavy losses and make assaults, heavy firepower to force the enemy to go to ground and stay there, good officers and often excellent (and plentiful) NCOs to led often well-trained and disciplined Marines. And this continues upwards.

Compare what you know of the PLAN Marines to this.

The PLAN marine corps is like the U.S. marine corps in training and operation concepts. Training-wise, it's probably based off of former Soviet-examples, but I'm not sure, though it can't be too much different from what the United States demands of its soldiers. At least the "Frogman Squad" is "comparable to the U.S. Navy SEAL in terms of tactics and doctrines" according to SinoDefence. Here's some more information:

A 5km (3 mile) run with 25 kg (55 lbs) of kit in 20 minutes, and in their first year of training? Wow, even USMC Force Recon (or whatever their calling themselves now) only required a 2 mile run in under 12 minutes with rifle, helmet, and webbing (and 20% higher scores in standard USMC physical fitness tests).

Still, the SinoDefence.com site doesn't have any specific information on minor unit organization, tactics, and leadership. That would have been nice, especially considering that's necessarily the PLAN Marines' bread and butter.

but from what I heard, all PLA Marine were not recruited from civilian, but from the PLA infantry. only the best in PLA infantry can be tested and become a PLA Marine, since the Marine in PLA is really small, they can be really picky about chosing the right men.

Personally I never served in the USMC but I have at least 3 friends that is in the MC. they first go though a 3 month basic. from what I heard the 3 month compared to the PLAMC training is easier, just about 3 mails every day, couple hundred pushup a day, M-16 training (no pistol or M-14, SAW) just M-16 only for weapon's training. basic martial art. 10 miles or so 70lb hiking, and that is the basic...
then they will go into the combat training in san deigo which is more tactnical.

From the rumors I heard from a friend that served in the PLA that some of the training the Marine have, 50 pushup under 1 min 10 times a day, 20 k run, 100 pull up, droped off by a ship and have to swim back to a island that is about 5 k away, very hard martial art traning, island surival. hold breath at least for 3 min. stuff like that,,,,

Here is a personal story I have seen. This happened one time when I was visiting a Buddhist temple in China. The temple was on top of a mountain and you have to walk there to the top by what seemed to be a very long stairway snaking up the mountain consisting of hundreds of steps. I believe the number of steps to be around a thousand, whose number had a Buddhist symbolism on it. The temple is probably about at least 300 to 400 feet up high from sea level.

Now imagine two 5 gallon plastic pail buckets, the kind you get for 5 gallon paint. Fill that with rice completely. Now hang both buckets on both ends of a wooden pole each and put that pole over your shoulders. With that on your shoulders, run up a thousand step walkway up the mountain.

And this is exactly what I saw this person did. This person did it nonstop, while I panted and dragged my feet, and she was old enough to be your grandmother. And she probably does this routinely bringing the rice to the monks in the temple upstairs. And not just that, she's not alone, as there are other old people bringing heavy stuff up the mountain and back, one of them was actually a cement bag and the sand to mix it with.

So when I think of strength and endurance, I cannot think of any soldier anymore. I think of this old woman with two pails of rice hanging on a bar across her shoulders as she walked up the mountain, nonstop, no complaints, all seemingly so easy as she must have done this all through her life. She isn't bulging with muscles, and she's rather short, but whatever she had must be of the toughest pure sinew.

I don't know if the PLA Marines or the PLA soldiers are as tough as this old lady. I do think, that from their cultural and social environment, they must have very tough standards for endurance. The old veterans in Mao's days must be pretty tough to endure that Long March, but I don't know if today's China's city boys are going to be as tough as either their forefathers or their brethren in the countryside.

Norfolk said:

A 5km (3 mile) run with 25 kg (55 lbs) of kit in 20 minutes, and in their first year of training? Wow, even USMC Force Recon (or whatever their calling themselves now) only required a 2 mile run in under 12 minutes with rifle, helmet, and webbing (and 20% higher scores in standard USMC physical fitness tests).

Click to expand...

==The Chinese marine is different to the us in the sense that it is pretty much a commando force, much like the Russian marines, it serves as a connection between the army and the navy rather than an independent strike force. the Chinese equivalent to the US marine are the marine corps, and, army amphibious divisions,

crobato said:

Here is a personal story I have seen. This happened one time when I was visiting a Buddhist temple in China. The temple was on top of a mountain and you have to walk there to the top by what seemed to be a very long stairway snaking up the mountain consisting of hundreds of steps. I believe the number of steps to be around a thousand, whose number had a Buddhist symbolism on it. The temple is probably about at least 300 to 400 feet up high from sea level.

Now imagine two 5 gallon plastic pail buckets, the kind you get for 5 gallon paint. Fill that with rice completely. Now hang both buckets on both ends of a wooden pole each and put that pole over your shoulders. With that on your shoulders, run up a thousand step walkway up the mountain.

And this is exactly what I saw this person did. This person did it nonstop, while I panted and dragged my feet, and she was old enough to be your grandmother. And she probably does this routinely bringing the rice to the monks in the temple upstairs. And not just that, she's not alone, as there are other old people bringing heavy stuff up the mountain and back, one of them was actually a cement bag and the sand to mix it with.

So when I think of strength and endurance, I cannot think of any soldier anymore. I think of this old woman with two pails of rice hanging on a bar across her shoulders as she walked up the mountain, nonstop, no complaints, all seemingly so easy as she must have done this all through her life. She isn't bulging with muscles, and she's rather short, but whatever she had must be of the toughest pure sinew.

I don't know if the PLA Marines or the PLA soldiers are as tough as this old lady. I do think, that from their cultural and social environment, they must have very tough standards for endurance. The old veterans in Mao's days must be pretty tough to endure that Long March, but I don't know if today's China's city boys are going to be as tough as either their forefathers or their brethren in the countryside.

Click to expand...

LOL, yea i see what you mean. when i traveled to China to visit the great wall, there were old men and ladies just going on a daily "walk" on the great wall for miles and they didint break a sweat. meanwhile, the younger teens in china were all drinking water and panting etc..

Norfolk said:

4. The USMC are well-trained by most standards. A US Marine receives around 18-20 weeks of recruit and infantry training, to fairly high standards of skill and physical fitness, and all must qualify as marksmen by successfully

Click to expand...

I recall reading that the Royal Marines (UK) receives 32 weeks of basic training, and the Dutch Royal Marines receive 48 weeks of basic training? Can anyone verify these numbers?