PLA Air Force news, pics and videos
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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According to the post A.Man linked, Thai Air Force didn't think too highly of PLAAF's dogfight skills and sent newbie pilots at first. When the inexperienced pilots were soundly defeated, the Thai sent their top pilots but were still beaten.
I always take reports of results from chinese air force DACT exercises against foreign air forces with a massive chunk of salt.
Still, the results in this case don't sound impossible. I think J-11As definitely are inferior to Gripen Cs in BVR, but I can imagine J-11As holding their own in WVR.
Still, the results in this case don't sound impossible. I think J-11As definitely are inferior to Gripen Cs in BVR, but I can imagine J-11As holding their own in WVR.
Gripen has great nose-pointing capabilities but is saddled with a relatively poor thrust-to-weight ratio. It's almost like a mini-J-10 in that sense.
From what I heard they sent 4 of the Su-27s (The few Su-27 china bought before making J-11, with obsolete avionics and very little, if any BVR capability) flown by some their pilots. And all we know is they had wins and losses, and in a particular one they suffered 0:4. We don't know if it's BVR or not(But it's likely, before the Thai pilots talked about how PLA pilots had to estimate the timing to launch missile and that put them at a disadvantage), and there is absolutely no source to confirm "they won all the close dog fights".
i would not dwell too much on the results. Depending on the set up of the different DACT scenarios, they could be in really favorable or really unfavorable setup. Most important part is that they are training with foreign air forces and getting a sense of where they can improve on.
The semi active R-27Rs are crap. This isnt something new.
It is very hard for a semi-active only BVR fighter to win a duel against an enemy equipped with active radar missiles, allowing them to exploit the boom and zoom tactics; launching their active-guided BVRAAM (that might even outrange the R-27s) at ideal NEZ range, and then immediately pulling a split-S and disengage, so that the R-27s that might be launched at that time, cant possibly catch up with them anymore.
In comparisson, the J-11s have to point their nose against the Gripens at all time to guide their sorry SemActs and pretty much attempt to chase them down while flying further and further into the NEZs of the enemy BVRAAMs.
The PLAAF did good in upgrading their J-11As with the electronics to fire the R-77s. But still, the key in winning future BVR engagements against Western supplied Airforces is to simply have the longer stick. Nothing more actually matters. The lack of news or confirmation of the PL-15/PL-21 etc is disencouraging. The PLAAF will lose all future air-battles against the JASDF, ROKAF, USAF and possibly even the ROCAF (if they receive their upgraded Falcons with AIM-120Ds) due to them all having considerably longer ranged, active guided BVRAAMs than the PLAAF.
It is very hard for a semi-active only BVR fighter to win a duel against an enemy equipped with active radar missiles, allowing them to exploit the boom and zoom tactics; launching their active-guided BVRAAM (that might even outrange the R-27s) at ideal NEZ range, and then immediately pulling a split-S and disengage, so that the R-27s that might be launched at that time, cant possibly catch up with them anymore.
In comparisson, the J-11s have to point their nose against the Gripens at all time to guide their sorry SemActs and pretty much attempt to chase them down while flying further and further into the NEZs of the enemy BVRAAMs.
The PLAAF did good in upgrading their J-11As with the electronics to fire the R-77s. But still, the key in winning future BVR engagements against Western supplied Airforces is to simply have the longer stick. Nothing more actually matters. The lack of news or confirmation of the PL-15/PL-21 etc is disencouraging. The PLAAF will lose all future air-battles against the JASDF, ROKAF, USAF and possibly even the ROCAF (if they receive their upgraded Falcons with AIM-120Ds) due to them all having considerably longer ranged, active guided BVRAAMs than the PLAAF.
We don't know much about PL-15, though by the looks of things I think it is probably in relatively late stages of development.
We don't know much about its specs either, though some parameters thrown around include dual pulse motor, dual mode AESA seeker, 200km range (though obviosuly range is entirely dependent on launch platform)
I myself am not too worried about Chinese fighters being significantly outranged by AAMs for that reason. It would probably be years until PL-15 even enters mass service before we have details about its perfoamce from export models, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they had reduced specs.