PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
That will be a long time... PLAN just received it.. It will probably need sometime for debug,tested and fulfil PLAN demand which maybe up to at least a dozens of them before they will looking for export order.

Anyway, I always thought ZDK-03 is for datalink of JF-17 while Erieye is for the F-16.

I don't think NATO stuff is able to datalink with Chinese equipments. I hope PAF will go for a all Chinese equip fleet in future and also cut down on the logistic and support issue.

PAF F16s comes with Link 16, we cant touch this system and it works with Erieye, also F7s and Mirages can communicate with Erieye because of thier radars

JF17 cant directly communicate with Erieye, it will however have a 'tactical data link’ system which will be integrated with ground-based sensors to provide comprehensive ‘situational awareness’ to the pilot, Pakistan is going to eventually have all systems intergrated with each other, either directly or via ground based interface

JF17 will be working with ZDK-03
 

i.e.

Senior Member
PAF F16s comes with Link 16, we cant touch this system and it works with Erieye, also F7s and Mirages can communicate with Erieye because of thier radars

JF17 cant directly communicate with Erieye, it will however have a 'tactical data link’ system which will be integrated with ground-based sensors to provide comprehensive ‘situational awareness’ to the pilot, Pakistan is going to eventually have all systems intergrated with each other, either directly or via ground based interface

JF17 will be working with ZDK-03

Can't a terminal of this "tactical data link" interface be installed on the erieye? also a broadcast node?

so Erieye's information can be both fed into and broadcast out from erieye

Also ZDK-03 has a back to back rotating AESA array like the latest E-2. it was develped by Hefei not 14th Institute in Nanjing, where 2000 and 200 systems are developed.
wonder why they choose this one instead of KJ-200 system.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The datalink is one of the most sensitive parts of any warplane. I do not see either the Chinese or the Americans/Euros trusting each other enough to allow the other to have access to their own datalink systems never mind the kind of close co-ordination needed to make the two data links standards work with each other.

As such, you cannot simply add another channel to an existing AWACS workstation, you probably need another workstation altogether. On an aircraft with very restricted space and weight, that is not a viable solution. It is also likely that both sides would see even such an arrangement as being too dangerous.

For a ground based solution, space and weight become less of an issue, and you have even have the two sets of datalink operators on different bases if you want.

More the most ideal solution, but the only other alternative I can see to make everything datalink with everything else is if Pakistan developed their own datalinks and had them retro-fitted to all aircraft. But I think that may be beyond Pakistan's technological and financial capabilities for now.

As for not choosing the KJ200, well, maybe the KJ200 was just a little too much like the erieye for the PAF's liking. If you need to get two kinds of AWACS, at least you can try and get some difference in function.

Without the need for a rotating array, the radar can be bigger and longer ranged on a balance beam design like the erieye and KJ200. That comes at the cost of 360 situational awareness.

Therefore, having both balance beams and rotating dish AWACS can complement each other so you at least get some additional benefit out of the duplication in assets.

Also, I find it interesting the the PAF has opted for half and half between erieye and ZDKs, since the PAF is going to have far more JF17s and maybe J10s than F16s. It could just be the lowest number the PAF could cut the erieye numbers due to contractual rehasons, or the PAF may intend to buy more Chinese AWACS in the future as their JF17 fleet grows. But there is also the possibility that the PaF intends to use the erieye and ZDK in different ways and in different places.

With a potentially bigger radar and greater detection range, the erieye may well be better at early warning along a single facing boarder. With 360 radar coverage and probably more workstations, the ZDK would be better suited as an in-theatre command node, and also where the IAF might be able to easily strike from multiple directions at once, so Pakistan's coastal boarder with India would be a good example.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Again the prototype ....
 

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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Can't a terminal of this "tactical data link" interface be installed on the erieye? also a broadcast node?

so Erieye's information can be both fed into and broadcast out from erieye

Also ZDK-03 has a back to back rotating AESA array like the latest E-2. it was develped by Hefei not 14th Institute in Nanjing, where 2000 and 200 systems are developed.
wonder why they choose this one instead of KJ-200 system.

i think plawolf has answered the questions but Erieye is balance beam and so is KJ200, and KJ2000 is beyond Pakistans procurrent ambitions, too big too expensive and to maintain, so they got custom made ZDK-03 with rotodome, they split the requirment and btw ZDK-03 is a long term development for PAF, not just another AWACSs, they will build on from this and take it a step further in the future

PAF got 4 Erieyes and 4 ZDK-03 which will be a perfect divide for the airforce, F7s, Mirage and F16 will work with Erieye and JF17 with ZDK-03, considering JF17 numbers are expected to be 150+ or even as high as 250 we will certainly need more ZDK-03 in the future

operating AWACS is a pretty expensive business, not many country can keep a AWACS in the air for prolonged periods of time especially not Pakistan, only in time of war these planes will flying 24/7, and in that lies maintence and operational costs, Saab 2000 is the best platform for Pakistan but it is limited to carrying certian on-boaard equipment, if we got EM195 or something we could add more but operating costs on these aircraft are much higher so processing and analysis is re-laid to land based systems, even Raytheon Sentinel aircraft cant process information on-board
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
it looks like we got the 2nd one delivered to Pakistan, Serial 11-002

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it also seems like India is finalising the deal for yet another 2 Phalcon AWACS to make 5 in total in light of Pakistans delivery of Erieye and ZDK-03
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
so India can not make or develop their own AWACS ?

india is developing a Active Array Antenna Unit to be fittted on the Brazilian EMB145, they bought 3 of these aircraft from Brazil and ths maiden flight is due to be in 2012 (if they are lucky)

it is being developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) which has a terrible track record in many military projects which face delays, over budget, changes in requiments before finally being cancelled and the order going to a foreign company, BAE Hawk deal for example and LCA
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
india is developing a Active Array Antenna Unit to be fittted on the Brazilian EMB145, they bought 3 of these aircraft from Brazil and ths maiden flight is due to be in 2012 (if they are lucky)

it is being developed by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) which has a terrible track record in many military projects which face delays, over budget, changes in requiments before finally being cancelled and the order going to a foreign company, BAE Hawk deal for example and LCA

Good to hear that, it seems India almost buy all advanced weapon system from foreigners.

But in saying that ... I believe when I see it in 2012 whether they can deliver what they say :)
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
currently DRDO is considering changing the platform from EMB 145 to either something from Boeing or Airbus, this is because they are not happy with the altitude to which the EMB 145 can fly with the radar, changing the platform will surely delay the entire project, estimating around 2014 and even 2016

Indian-made AWACS repeated delays pushed the completion time of 2014
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it is also worth noting that ZDK-03 has been seen flying near Karachi and it seems like this AWACS will be used in a naval role which is why it has rotodome for full coverage, Erieye looks forward and will face Indian border from where we expect India to come from

if it does go to naval role this means China AWACS is also mastered naval survaillence, which means they probably are working on a carrier AWACS too
 
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