PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread

Roger604

Senior Member
a ex-KJ-2000 radar operator alias Tommy Huang,the aircraft is not yet fully or officially enter service, there are still some technical problem .
aside from airborne surveillance, the radar capable of performing airborne jamming .
the aircraftcould use her SATCOM to upload or download information to main head quarter or naval ship.making the AWACS part of overall net centric /information warfare platform.

What on Earth are you talking about? That article does not state the aircraft has yet to fully enter service.

Man you keep blabbering on about how great Russian gear is and how Chinese technology is firmly behind great Russia -- are you Pinkov in disguise? Or just one of his fans?
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
What on Earth are you talking about? That article does not state the aircraft has yet to fully enter service.

Man you keep blabbering on about how great Russian gear is and how Chinese technology is firmly behind great Russia -- are you Pinkov in disguise? Or just one of his fans?

during the military parade in Beijing,a official Chinese commentator link to PLAAF, admited that development of KJ-2000, has encounter some technical problem-(like russian A-50U)her "look down" capability,problem in search and tracking of low flying aircraft or missile.by contrast,KJ-200 do not encounter similiar problem.according to the report KJ-2000 has to rely KJ-200 for low level search .
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
空警-2000预警机是中国空军的王牌,尽管该机已在去年的国庆阅兵中亮相,但其具体性能参数仍是秘密。2月出版的香港《亚太防务》杂志,刊登了该刊对曾在中国空军某部服役、目前旅居海外的退役飞行员Tommy Huang(化名)的访谈,提及与空警-2000有关的一些逸闻趣事。

  在无线电波里“玩把戏”

  某独立团是中国空军电子战专业部队。该部的核心兵力是空警-2000预警机和运-8运输机,后者挂载无人靶机,负责提供训练支持。该团另有多架轰-6和图-154飞机,再加上由民航机改装的空中实验机,机型之多冠绝全军。

  曾在该团服役的Tommy Huang表示,所有的电子战飞机都由固定机组操作,因为就算是同型机也有不同的内部设备。他说,自己当年差点被选为空警-2000的飞行员,“外面都叫空警-2000,其实我们团里不这么说,但我也不能告诉你我们怎么叫它。该机装了太多实验性的装备,机组有时连旁边的人在干啥都不是很了解,因为专业程度太高。再加上系统来源复杂,在整合上需要花很多时间。我是因为要退了才没去。”

  据这位退役飞行员介绍,要想在非常时期将敌人的“眼睛”(电子侦察系统)蒙住,最关键的是要搞清对手武器的电子频谱,这就得事先捕捉其信号进行存储分析。他声称,空警-2000就有这样的特殊本领,它能在海上测量船及电子侦察机的帮助下干扰对方的通讯,然后在无线电波里“玩把戏”。“讲得直白点,就是要将太空卫星到地面雷达的所有参数,全部整合到自己的资料库里,据说这是全世界头一次有人这么搞,科研工作者真是了不起。”

  Tommy Huang还说:“各军区都有专门负责电子战的机群,但装备没我们的好。在大军区的轰炸、运输部队里,仅零星配属有电子战机。……我们团每次飞行都会注意避开民航客机,地面航管也会帮忙。因为我们不喜欢让人看到,连住的宿舍都靠着基地的外围,就是要‘隔离’。还有,外面叫我们‘侦察干扰团’,其实是错的,因为我们就是搞电子战,只要报出‘独立团’军内无人不知,汇报成果时的那份光荣是别人想不到的。”

  驾驭好预警机不容易

  预警机是现代空军的战力倍增器,中国十分重视发展空中预警能力。英国《简氏防务周刊》等刊物曾报道,1996年,中国向英国购买了“空中霸王”预警雷达,并将其加装在运-8飞机上。这种雷达可执行对海上目标的远距离追踪、敌我识别、引导拦截等任务,并可储存250个目标,也可同时追踪50批目标并同时引导12批飞机作战。

  1997年,中国、俄罗斯和以色列达成协议。中国计划购买4架配备以色列制雷达的预警机,总价值10亿美元。俄罗斯根据合约于1999年10月向以色列提供了首架机体,用于安装以色列航空工业公司的“费尔康”雷达。但这个跨国合作计划在美国的干涉下流产了。中方遂在已获得的软硬件基础上,结合本国的技术独立发展预警机。

  外界认为,空警-2000除了担当卫星与地面的数据中继站外,设计标准还比照解放军的地面雷达指挥管制系统,指管能力达到同时指挥几十批次飞机的水平。它不只是单纯的预警机,还是一个串联太空卫星与地面雷达的空中实验平台。但因为系统负荷相当大,在设计上须克服耗电量过高及散热等难题。

  Tommy Huang还透露:“据我所知,空警-2000并不好飞,飞机的重量分布已经改变,不能按操作手册上的数据驾驶,因为册子跟不上装备的改变。也就是说装备时常在变,但册子却来不及修订。……但另一方面,我很信任现在驾驶该机的飞行员,因为起飞后的两小时内,要做难度很大的空中加油,这样才能达到最大飞行距离。而且除了飞行员很辛苦之外,舱里头的技术人员也很多,上洗手间有时都要排队,实在是非常辛苦的。”

First off, this passage is full of praises for the KJ-2000, talk abit about its ability and capability and some of the paragraphs focus on a bit of the developement process and stuff like that.

Second, this fellow called Tommy Huang is NOT the pilot for the KJ-2000, he is almost being selected and that was it.

The final paragraph said something about the aircraft was not easy to pilot.



a ex-KJ-2000 radar operator alias Tommy Huang,the aircraft is not yet fully or officially enter service, there are still some technical problem .
aside from airborne surveillance, the radar capable of performing airborne jamming .
the aircraftcould use her SATCOM to upload or download information to main head quarter or naval ship.making the AWACS part of overall net centric /information warfare platform.


Your understanding of the passage is clearly wrong. I do not know how you derive your translation, but please note that other people in this forum are well verse in Chinese too.

Finally, I must question the credibility of this passage too... where is your link, where did you get this passage from? References?

All of these are missing.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
during the military parade in Beijing,a official Chinese commentator link to PLAAF, admited that development of KJ-2000, has encounter some technical problem-(like russian A-50U)her "look down" capability,problem in search and tracking of low flying aircraft or missile.by contrast,KJ-200 do not encounter similiar problem.according to the report KJ-2000 has to rely KJ-200 for low level search .

Could you kindly post some links for your claims? Couldn't seemed to find it on net. Maybe I am typing something wrong.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
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Registered Member
Just to clear this up. This is one of the random bs articles that appeared on Chinse forums. These articles come out all the time. It's supposedly originated from an English article, but I haven't found that yet. So, there is currently no basis for this.

As for the KJ-2000's problems, the stuff about relying on KJ-200 to do low level search is nonsense.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
Just to clear this up. This is one of the random bs articles that appeared on Chinse forums. These articles come out all the time. It's supposedly originated from an English article, but I haven't found that yet. So, there is currently no basis for this.

As for the KJ-2000's problems, the stuff about relying on KJ-200 to do low level search is nonsense.

it was posted in wmf, and even open admission by xinhua news agency,national Chinese media,"that KJ-2000 still has some problem"
but problem particular in the lookdown mode does not prevent her russian counterpart A=50U from entering into service.
according to PLAAF official that A-50U has problem trying to track low level target, this later confirm by the Indian AF.
during the mid -70's brit attempted to develop there own AWACS,but encounter problem very similiar to russia,and, now, China, her "look down" mode,eventually the project was scrapped in favor of boeing E-3A.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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it was posted in wmf, and even open admission by xinhua news agency,national Chinese media,"that KJ-2000 still has some problem"
but problem particular in the lookdown mode does not prevent her russian counterpart A=50U from entering into service.
according to PLAAF official that A-50U has problem trying to track low level target, this later confirm by the Indian AF.
during the mid -70's brit attempted to develop there own AWACS,but encounter problem very similiar to russia,and, now, China, her "look down" mode,eventually the project was scrapped in favor of boeing E-3A.

wmf is the pit of Chinese bbs. KJ-2000 had problems in the beginning, but not to the degree that you are talking about. Why don't you post the links that you mentioned from xinhua?

This article from Tommy Huang is certainly of no real consequence.
 

ZTZ99

Banned Idiot
it was posted in wmf, and even open admission by xinhua news agency,national Chinese media,"that KJ-2000 still has some problem"
but problem particular in the lookdown mode does not prevent her russian counterpart A=50U from entering into service.
according to PLAAF official that A-50U has problem trying to track low level target, this later confirm by the Indian AF.
during the mid -70's brit attempted to develop there own AWACS,but encounter problem very similiar to russia,and, now, China, her "look down" mode,eventually the project was scrapped in favor of boeing E-3A.

All of your explanations so far do not have anything to do with the fact that most of the "translation" you gave does not match the Chinese in the article. You inserted your own opinion and what you got from hearsay and tried to pass it off as a translation. That's very sketchy behavior.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
For those of you who derisively called China nothing but copy cat Read this report from Dr Carlos Kopp

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Advances in PLA C4ISR Capabilities
Publication: China Brief Volume: 10 Issue: 4February 18, 2010 01:56 PM Age: 22 hrsCategory: China Brief, Home Page, Military/Security, China and the Asia-Pacific, Featured
By: Carlo Kopp

C4ISR (Command Control Communication Computer and Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance) systems are a key measure of military capability, and an area in which the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is steadily advancing. Determining how strong PLA capabilities in this area are presents some analytical challenges, as unlike other areas of PLA military growth, C4ISR has received little public exposure. The Chinese military's ISR systems are more easily surveyed due to the wealth of published imagery, but technical detail on most is scarce and must often be dissected by engineering analysis of antennas or other visual features.

C4 Versus ISR – Analytical Challenges

All modern C4ISR systems can be broadly divided into the "back end" or C4 components, comprising the command and control systems, and the networks and computers supporting them, and "front end" or ISR components, comprising the orbital, airborne, maritime and fixed or mobile ground-based sensor systems, which collect raw data for the "back end" components.

The traditional division of C4ISR systems into strategic, operational and tactical is becoming problematic, as the flexibility of modern digital systems permits many such components to be concurrently employed for all three purposes.

There are good reasons why the PLA has not widely advertised its C4ISR capabilities. The first is that Western, especially U.S. military doctrine, emphasizes early and intensive attacks on an opponent's C4ISR systems to create confusion and paralysis at a tactical, operational and strategic level. As many C4ISR systems are fixed and difficult to harden, wide public disclosure presents opportunities for opposing intelligence analysis and collection against a critical national vulnerability in times of conflict.

Another consideration is that footage or imagery of racked computer and networking equipment has much less public relations appeal, compared to fighter aircraft, ballistic missiles, guided bombs and other more traditional symbols of national military power.

From a technical analysis perspective, study of C4ISR systems also presents challenges due to the pervasive and usually distributed nature of the technologies used to construct them, the complexity of networked systems, and the now global propensity to share transmission channels, such as satellites, optical fibers, copper cables, and microwave links between civilian and military users, making it difficult to determine where the military capability starts and ends. Often high-quality HUMINT (human intelligence) is the only means of determining the ground truth in such systems.

Airborne and Land Based ISR

The PLA Air Force (PLAAF) has advanced the furthest in atmospheric ISR capabilities, with the development of the KJ-2000 and KJ-200 Airborne Early Warning and Control systems, which like their Western counterparts, fully integrate active radar and passive radiofrequency sensors, with a comprehensive digital and voice C4 system. These airborne systems employ phased array radar technology one full generation ahead of the U.S. E-3C AWACS and E-2C Hawkeye. The C4 fit on either system has not been disclosed. At least four KJ-2000 systems are claimed operational [1].

Reconnaissance pods and internally integrated sensor capabilities in PLAAF strike and multi-role aircraft lag strongly at this time against their Western counterparts. Targeting pods with ISR potential are only now appearing in operational units, mostly for targeting smart munitions.

The PLA has advanced considerably in air defense capabilities, and the C4ISR components have been prominent. Wide and diverse ranges of modern radars of Chinese and Russian origin are progressively displacing legacy Chinese designs. Notable examples are the Russian 64N6E Big Bird battle management radar, used recently in S-300PMU2/SA-20B Gargoyle ATBM trials, and the new Chinese developed Type 120, 305A and 305B high-mobility acquisition radars. These are supplemented by mobile ground-based passive emitter locating systems such as the CETC YLC-20 series [2].

PLA ground forces are now introducing tactical UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) to support maneuver force elements, with these displayed prominently during the 60th anniversary parade. While the PLA UAV force is immature by Western standards, considerable effort is being invested to develop this sector. For instance, systems in development or early service include the W-50 fixed wing UAV and Z-3 rotary wing UAV, as well as the CH3 modeled on the U.S. Predator. These supplementary conventional battlefield ISR assets are like the new CAIC WZ-10 reconnaissance and attack helicopter, modeled on U.S. and E.U. equivalents (See "New Advances in PLA Battlefield Aerospace and ISR," China Brief, January 22, 2009).

The established trend to emulate the full spectrum of Western ISR systems is not confined to aerial systems, with two UGVs (Unmanned Ground Vehicles) with ISR potential, the ASENDRO and the CHRYSOR in development (See "New Advances in PLA Battlefield Aerospace and ISR," China Brief, January 22, 2009).

C4 – The Connectivity Challenge

What is less clear is the system-level integration and networking intended for what will become a very modern and diverse fleet of tactical and operational level ISR systems. The latter problem has bedeviled Western military operators for two decades, and definitive technological solutions remain to be found.

China is deploying an extensive grid of terrestrial fiber optic links to support its civil infrastructure, which as noted by various U.S. government reports, provide for a significant dual use capability to support the Chinese military’s C4ISR needs. Buried fiber optic cables provide high bandwidth and are inherently secure from remote SIGINT (signals intelligence), hardened against electromagnetic and radiofrequency weapons and jamming.

PLA thinking on wide operational level connectivity is evidenced by two new systems displayed at the 60th anniversary parade. These are a family of fully mobile tactical satellite terminals, using characteristic dishes with boom feeds, and tropospheric scatter communications systems, easily distinguished by paired dish antennas.

While the PLA's SATCOM (satellite communication) terminals reflect global trends, the deployment of troposcatter (or tropospheric scatter) communications equipment is much more interesting. The mature U.S. equivalent AN/TRC-170 system was a mainstay of U.S. operational level connectivity during the Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom Campaigns, providing advancing land forces with high data rate "backbone" connectivity to rear areas.

Troposcatter systems are unique in that they provide non-line-of-sight over the horizon connectivity without the use of a satellite or airborne relay station, this being achieved by bouncing high-power microwave beams off of refractive gradients in the upper atmosphere. As such, a pair of mobile troposcatter terminals can provide multiple Megabits/second data rates to ranges of 100 - 150 miles. The U.S. Army and Marine Corps have employed troposcatter systems for conventional land force long haul data and voice communications applications [3].

The PLA appears to be using troposcatter terminals to support Russian supplied S-300PMU2 and indigenous HQ-9 mobile air defense missile batteries, this permitting a battery to maintain a high data rate channel to any fixed fiber optic terminal within a 150 mile range [4]. As a result, these mobile missile batteries can continuously redeploy in a "shoot and scoot" manner to evade opposing ISR systems, while maintaining connectivity with the centralized fixed air defense C4 system [5]. The wealth of recent high-quality Chinese scientific research papers on advanced troposcatter techniques suggests this technology will become pivotal in PLA C3 operations [6].

There is no direct evidence to date of the troposcatter system being deployed to support mobile Second Artillery Corps (SAC) ballistic and cruise missile batteries (SAC is the strategic missile forces of the PLA). But given that the "shoot and scoot" operating doctrine for these assets differs little from that of air defense missile batteries, the future employment of troposcatter terminals to provide C3 support for SAC units should not come as a surprise if it happens.

Maritime C4ISR Challenges

The PLA Navy has historically relied heavily on its fleet of 1,500 nautical miles range H-6D maritime strike aircraft to provide ISR capability for surface fleet elements, emulating Soviet and NATO Cold War doctrine. This is now changing with the doctrinal shift to the "Second Island Chain" strategy, in which the PLA Navy and Air Force assume responsibility for controlling a much larger geographical area, following an arc from the Marianas, through Northern Australia, to the Andaman Islands [7].

The advent of DF-21 derived ASBMs (Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles), modern coastal battery deployed cruise missiles like the DH/CJ-10 and C-602, and a range of ASCMs (Anti Ship Cruise Missile) carried by PLA Navy strike aircraft such as the Su-30MK2 Flanker, JH-7 Flounder, and the new turbofan powered H-6K Badger, demands accurate and timely C4ISR support to be effective against opposing maritime forces [8].

To date China's maritime C4ISR model has emulated Soviet Cold War thinking, reflecting the geo-strategic realities of a continental power seeking to control vulnerable maritime sea-lanes. Unlike the Soviets, however, China's heavy dependency upon energy and raw materials imports by sea presents an additional vulnerability, more akin to that of the Western powers.

The Soviets initially performed maritime ISR using long range surface search radar equipped Tu-16K Badger C/D and Tu-95RTs/142 Bear D/F long range aircraft, which were equipped with data links to relay maritime surface target coordinates to ASCM armed aircraft, surface combatants, and submarines. As the U.S. Navy increased the reach of its carrier battle group missile and fighter defenses, the Soviets deployed the SMKRITs (Sistema Morskoy Kosmicheskoy Razvedki I Tseleukazaniya / Maritime Space Reconnaissance and Targeting System) RORSATs (Radar Ocean Reconnaissance Satellite), which employed a Molniya satellite communications downlink to relay targeting data to maritime strike assets [9].

China is currently deploying a number of coastal OTH-SW (Over The Horizon Surface Wave) and OTH-B (Over The Horizon Backscatter) radar systems, which provide ISR capabilities against surface shipping systems and aircraft [10]. This technology can provide prodigious detection ranges compared to coastal microwave radars, but is limited by atmospheric conditions, and typically lacks the required accuracy to target a terminally guided weapon, thus providing an effective tripwire ISR capability out to the Second Island Chain, but not the precision targeting capability required to support air and missile strikes.

Implementation of the Second Island Chain strategy will drive the PLA Navy inevitably in the direction of long range UAVs, aircraft and satellites for the provision of targeting ISR, and most likely GeoStationary Earth Orbit (GEO) SATCOM for C3 capability to support aircraft, UAVs and warships performing maritime strike operations.

China's remote sensing satellite program, characterized by the extant Yaogan-1, -2, -3, -4, and -5, the Haiyang-1B, and the CBERS-2 and -2B satellite systems, have been identified by the Pentagon as dual use capabilities [11]. The planned HJ-1C and HY-3 high resolution radar imaging satellites will have significant potential for RORSAT (Radar Ocean Reconnaissance Satellite) operation, and even if inadequate, will provide the technology base for a future PLA RORSAT constellation [12].

China operates a robust number of foreign built and indigenous GEO satellites for civilian direct broadcast channels, and telecommunications transponder services, including the C-band DFH-3, DFH-4 series. In 2000, the PLA launched the first of the FH-1 series of military SATCOM vehicles, intended as part of the Qu Dian C4ISR system; the latter is described as similar in concept to the NATO/US MIDS/JTIDS/Link-16 and Link-22 systems. In 2008, China launched the Tian Lian-1 data relay satellite, intended to provide expanded communications coverage for orbital assets (Xinhua News Agency, April 25, 2008).

If the PLA exploits existing and developing satellite technology effectively, it will be capable of fielding an effective orbital C4ISR segment to support the Second Island Chain strategy over this decade, including a credible RORSAT capability. Existing dual use capabilities may be improvised to provide a limited near-term capability.

Contemporary Western ISR doctrine sees the penetration of hostile computers and networks as the cyberspace segment of a nation's ISR capabilities. China's well-documented, albeit officially denied, activities in penetrating foreign, especially U.S. government, computer systems and networks indicate a strong appreciation of the value of cyberspace as an ISR environment.

Conclusion

In the final analysis, while much of the PLA's C4ISR capability remains opaque, what is abundantly clear from what is known is that the PLA has an acute understanding of the value of advanced C4ISR in modern conflicts and is investing heavily in this area, emulating specific capabilities and doctrine developed in recent decades in the West and in Russia. Numerous instances demonstrate robust indigenous capability to develop key C4ISR technologies, and apply these technologies in unique and original ways. If the observed trends in PLA C4ISR doctrine and technological capabilities continue unabated, the PLA will have a world-class C4ISR capability in place by the end of the coming decade.Notes

1. Carlo Kopp, The PLA-AF's Airborne Early Warning & Control Programs, Technical Report APA-TR-2007-07022, Air Power Australia,
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2. Carlo Kopp, Almaz-Antey S-300PMU2 Favorit Self Propelled Air Defense System / SA-20 Gargoyle, Technical Report APA-TR-2009-0502, Air Power Australia,
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3. Brad E. Rhodes, What is the future of troposcatter in the Army? History, successes, usage and upgrades supporting the Integrated Theater Signal Battalion, Army Communicator, Winter, 2005, U.S. Army Signal Center, Fort Gordon, GA, handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA495330
4. Kopp, Almaz-Antey S-300PMU2 Favorit Self Propelled Air Defense System / SA-20 Gargoyle, Technical Report APA-TR-2009-0502, op. cit.
5. Ibid.; Carlo Kopp and John Wise, HQ-9 and HQ-12 SAM System Battery Radars, Technical Report APA-TR-2009-1201, Air Power Australia,
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6. Hu Maokai, Chen Xihong, Shu Tao, Dong Shaoqiang Missile Inst., AFEU, Sanyuan, China, New generation troposcatter communication based on OFDM modulation, Electronic Measurement & Instruments, 2009. ICEMI '09. 9th International Conference on, August 16-19, 2009; Shu-xin Chen, Hai-long Gu, Telecommun. Eng. Inst., Air Force Eng. Univ., Xi'an, A detailed simulation study for troposcatter channel, Industrial Informatics, 2008. INDIN 2008. 6th IEEE International Conference on, July 13-16, 2008; and a search of online databases identified 22 recent Chinese language research papers dealing with troposcatter communications theory, available upon request.
7. Military Power of the People’s Republic of China, ANNUAL REPORT TO CONGRESS, 2009, Office of the Secretary of Defense, Washington DC.
8. Mark Stokes, China’s Evolving Conventional Strategic Strike Capability; The anti-ship ballistic missile challenge to U.S. maritime operations in the Western Pacific and beyond, 2049 Institute report, September 2009.
9. Soviet Maritime Reconnaissance, Targeting, Strike and Electronic Combat Aircraft, Technical Report APA-TR-2007-0704, Air Power Australia,
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10. Sean O'Connor, OTH Radar and the ASBM Threat, IMINT & Analysis website, geimint.blogspot.com/2008/11/oth-radar-and-asbm-threat.html
11. Ibid.
12. Ibid.; Colonel David J. Thompson, USAF and Lieutenant Colonel William R. Morris, USAF, China in Space; Civilian and Military Developments, Air War College Maxwell Paper No. 24, August 2001.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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To be honest, but IMO to deem Carlo Kopp a reliable source is ... ??!!!:eek:ff

Again my opinion, but all he wants to do - nearyl a holy quest for him - is to draw a huge danger comming from the East, or better Far East that only wants to overrun his beloved Australia ... so in the end all that could help is to buy the Raptor, a near hyper-mythical bird.

Just read my most favourite statement regarding Carlo Kopp's credibility about the PAK-FA: :rol


"...the only viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter program immediately, redirect freed funding to further develop the F-22 Raptor, and employ variants of the F-22 aircraft as the primary fighter aircraft for all United States and Allied TACAIR needs."


As such ... all from him has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Deino :rofl:
 
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