PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread
- Thread starter Sczepan
- Start date
#1 - The Y-9-based GX-15 is both the best and readily available option to China right now and in the foreseeable years to come - And that China is able to mass produce them entirely on their own. That's a FACT.
#2 - Producing more GX-15s (and have them retrofitted with mid-air refueling capabilities), alongside other measures (including shutting off one or two engines mid-flight to conserve fuel) are the best/rational/logical actions China could do at the current juncture. Developing a brand new ASW aircraft based on the Y-20 platform is not one of them.
#3 - If anything, building more Y-20B MRTTs and YY-20Bs that can be made available for refueling the GX-15s (in conjunction with in order to extend their mission duration and combat radius would be a much more effective (and on top of that, readily-available) solution, rather than trying to develop a Y-20-based ASW aircraft from scratch.
#4 - In contrast, developing a Y-20-based ASW isn't just taking away the limited manpower, resources and money that would better off going to other higher priority/critical projects, but also occupying Y-20 production slots at Xi'an AC that would otherwise better allocated towards the production of more Y-20B MRTTs, alongside KJ-3000s and specialized Y-20B tankers in the future.
#5 - Why did you move the goalpost to beyond 2IC and also into the Indian Ocean? As a matter of fact, the P-3s, P-1s and P-8s only have combat radii of ~2200-2500 kilometers with 3-4 hours of on-station time. They certainly won't be able to conduct meaningful patrol missions beyond the 2IC if they're based in mainland Chinese airbases without mid-air refueling or refueling stops somewhere in the 1IC/2IC, let alone into the Indian Ocean.
#6 - Why are you putting ASW in the same league of discussion as AEW&C? Both the KJ-700 and KJ-3000 occupy different tiers in the AEW&C domain of the PLAAF and PLANAF. Both the KJ-700 (小平台大预警) and KJ-3000 (大平台大预警) aren't just having different features and capabilities to one another, but both of them are complementary to one another. The KJ-3000 does NOT replace the KJ-700. On the other hand, there is certainly no need for separate tiers of ASW aircrafts.
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Post corrected.
Looks like heavily edited/PSed
I have never said that the Y-9 based aircrafts are not good for now. I have been saying they will not be good enough for the future because of their limited range and endurance compared to a larger body with turbofan engines.
No dispute here but "at the current juncture" is not what my posts are about.
Yes more MRTTs would be better for now and in the future but it does not go against the fact that there will be needs for a larger body powered by turbofan engines as the platform for new MPA/AEW&S/etc. aircrafts. As I said, and let me repeat, while a C9x9 variant will be ideal for it, if C9x9 will not be available in time, a backup will be needed. Unless you think China does not need larger MPA/AEW&S/etc powered by turbofans, this Y-20 based body can be that backup. And this body has already been developed for KJ-3000 so it will not be from scratch.
While you are right about taking away bodies for more MRTTs, but it will be a compromise that PLAF and PLAN will have to consider if a C9x9 variant will not be available in time.
The goalpost is not about 1IC, 2IC or Indian Ocean. It is about longer range and greater endurance. China will need to patrol, in meaningful ways, beyond 2IC and into Indian Ocean. Even if the Y-9 and Y-30 based aircrafts can do it, with or without in air refuelling, it will still be inferior to a larger body powered by turbofans.
I actually did not bring up ASW. I started this conversation with MPA by saying "like P-8" if I remember correctly. It was you keep saying ASW. But it's okay because ASW is one of the jobs that MPAs do.
In this particular conversation, I consider MPA, ELINT and AEW&S "in the same league" because they have a lot of components to share in particular the bodies.
Who said KJ-3000 is to replace KJ-700? Neither did I suggest in any way that the possible new MPAs based on a larger body powered by turbofans is to replace the smaller turboprop powered ones. I think they will, at the beginning at least, be "complementary to one another" with the existing turboprop ones, if you allow me to borrow your words here. But that is a different topic.
Now I see that you think that China will not need larger MPA powered by turbofans for greater range and endurance, we do not have a common ground for the debate to continue any longer. We can agree to disagree.
keep in mind that turboprop aircraft fly at lower speed and have lower operating cost/better fuel efficiency than Y-20.
as such, using Y-9 platform is actually more logical than using Y-20.
What they can probably do is to develop a follow on class to Y-9 that is lighter (using latest material technology), carry more fuel and more efficient turboprop engine.
Now, if they do want something efficient and fly faster, they could use an all domestic version of C919 (similar to what Boeing did with P-8)
as such, using Y-9 platform is actually more logical than using Y-20.
What they can probably do is to develop a follow on class to Y-9 that is lighter (using latest material technology), carry more fuel and more efficient turboprop engine.
Now, if they do want something efficient and fly faster, they could use an all domestic version of C919 (similar to what Boeing did with P-8)
Yeah, let's agree to disagree.
The Y-20 should not (and will not) be adapted for ASW (or even MPA, if you would like so) - More so (or even) in the context of being a "backup", when there are plenty other options/measures that are deemed more viable if not readily available in order to mitigate/resolve the issues and problems faced. This will hold true for the coming years.
Case Closed.
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The advantages of the turboprops were not disputed.
What if such C919 variant will be not available in time? This was why we had this discussion. Do you think PLA will just wait for the C919 or will they look for another turbofan body that is readily available?
Domestic C919 is meant to be ready by 2027. It's likely if they wanted any military variants, development would be parallel.