PLA AEW&C, SIGINT, EW and MPA thread

[ACuriousPLAFan]

But how does 8 hour endurance mean you need 3 for one area? They can just alternate, one refuels while the other loiters, surely it doesnt take that long..

Because at present, most of the PLA's AEW&C fleet do not have mid-air refueling capabilities. They must return to their bases to be refueled. This scenario will become more amplified as the PLAAF and PLAN operates further away from the Chinese coastlines*. The Himalayan Frontier with few Chinese airbases and dual-use airports that are spread far apart across the Xizang Plateau and the Taklamakan Desert brings similar problems too.

(*This is also why I'm arguing that the PLA should capture the southern 1/3rd, if not the southern 2/3rds of the Ryukyu Islands in Operation AR, provided direct & active Japanese and US intervention in the war. The main island of Taiwan itself can be quarantined/blockaded without ever landing any troops onto it, but the same cannot be said for the Ryukyus due to its tactical and strategic significance for the war effort.)

Besides, while the planes themselves have the endurance to loiter and conduct missions that long - The crew onboard do not. Working in high-pressure environment for extended durations means performance will automatically degrade after a certain period of time.

Doing this consistently and repeatedly, and it will be a matter of time before:
1. The crew gave out; or
2. They got shot down because they didn't manage to detect and direct allied fires at the enemy forces in time; or
3. They crashed due to pilot error -
All from fatigue.

Humans are still humans, after all.

This is yet to include other factors that are expected to eat away at the AEW&C fleet during peer-to-peer wars:
1. Damaged/shot down by enemy action during combat missions;
2. Combat and non-combat accidents;
3. Maintenance backlogs after intensive usages;
4. Damaged/destroyed on the ground by enemy actions or accidents, etc.

All of these will demand more airframes and crew than what we're typically associated with during peacetime.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Hi,
while going upgrade Kj500/700, by the way why China is not
putting these AEWC dishes on top of COMIC series planes
coz it’s like commercial rights involved or something else
thank you

Because COMAC aircrafts (ARJ21, C919) still have key components that are of foreign origin, especially the engines.

TL; DR - They aren't sanction-proof (for at least the next couple of years) to be applicable for military usage.

 

[pesoleati]

Because COMAC aircrafts (ARJ21, C919) still have key components that are of foreign origin, especially the engines.

TL; DR - They aren't sanction-proof (for at least the next couple of years) to be applicable for military usage.

I think that both what you said are less important factors.

China just does not want to ruin the possible commercial airliner market for COMAC. They do not want to give customers any execute to reject the product. A lot of countries do not want have to do with PLA.

 

[vincent]

I think that both what you said are less important factors.

China just does not want to ruin the possible commercial airliner market for COMAC. They do not want to give customers any execute to reject the product. A lot of countries do not want have to do with PLA.

Western countries will not buy COMAC planes anyway, the rest of world doesn’t care if COMAC has a relationship with the PLA or not.
The main issue is the potential sanctions.

 

[antiterror13]

Any summary of how stronger/better KJ-700 to existing KJ-500 ?

Any update of KJ-3000 ?

 

[plawolf]

Not having air refuelling might be down to other considerations, specifically crew endurance and fatigue.

Air combat controllers are highly intensive and demanding roles, especially against a near peer who can shoot back and seriously challenge your limits. Do you really want people pulling 12h+ shifts doing that kind of role? Someone zoning out and missing a momentary contact could be the difference between detecting or missing a VLO bogey.

 

[THX 1138]

Is crew endurance really an issue for a large aircraft like the KJ-500? I assume crewmen can stand up, lie down, walk around, eat meals, use the bathroom, and work in rotating shifts. It's not like a combat fighter or a bomber where the pilot is strapped into his seat and wearing a helmet for the entire duration of the flight.

 

[plawolf]

Is crew endurance really an issue for a large aircraft like the KJ-500? I assume crewmen can stand up, lie down, walk around, eat meals, use the bathroom, and work in rotating shifts. It's not like a combat fighter or a bomber where the pilot is strapped into his seat and wearing a helmet for the entire duration of the flight.

As far as I am aware, planes like AWACS do not typically carry more controllers than work stations to allow airborne shift work. Most models don’t even have physical seats to sit that many more people since much of the cabin space is taken up by equipment.

They can maybe take one or two extra controllers to rotate people out for short breaks, but that’s not the same as having a fresh crew.

NATO have been able to get away with long shifts because goat herders typically don’t present much in the way of air threats. In a near peer conflict, it’s extremely likely that the crew will loose operational effectiveness and need to be rotated out long before the aircraft runs low on fuel.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

Purported view of the KJ-700 in yellow primer from underneath. This photo should be quite dated. Posted by @琴石2022 on Weibo.

 

[Totoro]

What if the new dish is rotatable but only when needed? Like kj200, the aew plane could operate with two sides fixed. But when needed, arrays can change position. Or even rotate continuously until they need to pause to dwell on something.