Philippines Vs Taiwan... Troubled Waters
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AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
It's pretty despicable how the Philippine side tries to inject China into an incident between Taiwan and the Philippines as if somehow it makes killing a Taiwanese fisherman out to be less. Yeah China is taking advantage. No different from the Philippines taking advantage of disputes between Japan and China.
joshuatree
Captain
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!
The fishing boat is about 15 tonnes per this article.
And from the Filipino media, BFAR MCS-3001 is a 30 meter vessel or about 100 feet. Don't know if anyone can deduce displacement from that. But so far, it's looking like the PCG vessel was in no harm at all.
I find the story from the Filipino side not adding up and highly suspicious. It's been at least two days later and there's no footage of the PCG vessel back in dock for assessment. No proof of any damage from a supposed ramming attempt. In previous engagements, the Filipinos have video footage. One YouTube clip they posted boasts how they supposedly "out maneuver" CMS ships. In the boarding attempt that started the standoff at Scarborough, they had photos. So clearly they possess camcorder and camera equipment. This time, nada. Also no indication of any communication between PCG vessel and home base. Therefore, no proof of their story whatsoever.
The Filipino media identified the incident as 43nm east of Balintang Island but the WSJ article mentions east of Batanes. Different locations, I'm wondering if there's any doctoring now because closer to Batanes means even less argument that it was in undisputed waters. Not only is the claim of being in Filipino territory questionable, but there has been zero evidence offered that the fishing boat was conducting illegal fishing at all. Fishing boats still need to transit to their spots so is it a crime to transit now? What if the vessel was on its way to or from the Western Pacific? I doubt they mistook that boat for a Chinese flagged ship. They encounter those in the SCS all the time and you don't see them firing at all. No, they knew this is a Taiwanese vessel and having done this in 2006 with no repercussions, they felt they could do it again. I'm glad President Ma is taking a strong stance with a 72 hour ultimatum. Either way on whether the Philippines accepts or rejects is a lose-lose proposition for them.
The fishing boat is about 15 tonnes per this article.
And from the Filipino media, BFAR MCS-3001 is a 30 meter vessel or about 100 feet. Don't know if anyone can deduce displacement from that. But so far, it's looking like the PCG vessel was in no harm at all.
I find the story from the Filipino side not adding up and highly suspicious. It's been at least two days later and there's no footage of the PCG vessel back in dock for assessment. No proof of any damage from a supposed ramming attempt. In previous engagements, the Filipinos have video footage. One YouTube clip they posted boasts how they supposedly "out maneuver" CMS ships. In the boarding attempt that started the standoff at Scarborough, they had photos. So clearly they possess camcorder and camera equipment. This time, nada. Also no indication of any communication between PCG vessel and home base. Therefore, no proof of their story whatsoever.
The Filipino media identified the incident as 43nm east of Balintang Island but the WSJ article mentions east of Batanes. Different locations, I'm wondering if there's any doctoring now because closer to Batanes means even less argument that it was in undisputed waters. Not only is the claim of being in Filipino territory questionable, but there has been zero evidence offered that the fishing boat was conducting illegal fishing at all. Fishing boats still need to transit to their spots so is it a crime to transit now? What if the vessel was on its way to or from the Western Pacific? I doubt they mistook that boat for a Chinese flagged ship. They encounter those in the SCS all the time and you don't see them firing at all. No, they knew this is a Taiwanese vessel and having done this in 2006 with no repercussions, they felt they could do it again. I'm glad President Ma is taking a strong stance with a 72 hour ultimatum. Either way on whether the Philippines accepts or rejects is a lose-lose proposition for them.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
What did you expect? The Philippines have been making up the same kind of nonsense arguments every time they start something with China. The only difference this time is that since the victim isn't Chinese, the western media doesn't automatically take whatever the Philippines says as the unvarnished truth, and the slightest bit of critical thinking and asking some blindingly obvious questions leaves massive gaping holes in the Philippine's story.
Instead of coming up with a better lie or coming clean, the Philippines is trying to drag China into the dispute, as if by some magic, their nonsense BS story about shooting up an unarmed Taiwanese fishing boat in 'self defence' will suddenly make perfect sense if they can somehow make it that they shot up an unarmed Chinese fishing boat instead. And the truly sad and pathetic thing is, it would probably work if they can somehow make the Taiwanese boat Chinese, or if they shot up a Chinese boat to start with, as I suspect was what they actually intended all along. The Taiwanese fishing boat was just unlucky because they Filipino coast guard crew apparently couldn't tell Taiwan from China.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Could open the doors to a PLAN Anti-Piracy Police Action in the South China Seas.
Likewise joint protection to both PRC and ROC flagged fisherman from both PLAN and Taiwanese Navies.
Likewise joint protection to both PRC and ROC flagged fisherman from both PLAN and Taiwanese Navies.
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!
jeff you can't use US coast guard logic and procedures and apply it to the Philippines coast guard. this is the Philippines we're talking about. the most incompetent and underachieving nation in asia. is there ANYTHING that this nation does that is not an embarressement? have you forgotten that most outrageous hostage rescue event of hong kong tourists a few years back by the pinoy police swat team? they are utterly useless.
jeff you can't use US coast guard logic and procedures and apply it to the Philippines coast guard. this is the Philippines we're talking about. the most incompetent and underachieving nation in asia. is there ANYTHING that this nation does that is not an embarressement? have you forgotten that most outrageous hostage rescue event of hong kong tourists a few years back by the pinoy police swat team? they are utterly useless.
This was inevitable, the Chinese government should push this as much as possible, the US along with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines have been trying to paint China as the bad guy throughout all this, now the momentum is turning against them and the reality of the situation is starting to settle in.
Supporting the pivot doesn't just mean containing China, it means explicit support for Japan, Vietnam and Philippines. China should use this to remind people that a balance of power between so many nations with so many differing interests can lead to quagmire of disputes, ones which the Chinese should fully support and balloon to the point where it will nullify America's efforts.
Supporting the pivot doesn't just mean containing China, it means explicit support for Japan, Vietnam and Philippines. China should use this to remind people that a balance of power between so many nations with so many differing interests can lead to quagmire of disputes, ones which the Chinese should fully support and balloon to the point where it will nullify America's efforts.
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!
I'll tell you something else that's an embarrassment, deliberately flouting the forum's rule of no country bashing is an embarrassment.
I'll tell you something else that's an embarrassment, deliberately flouting the forum's rule of no country bashing is an embarrassment.
I am afraid that this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to nastiness in the disputed waters. There are rumors from Taiwanese BBS that the Filipino navy sometimes recruit former pirates, which may account for the lack of professionalism during this incidient.