Peru is buying Chinese tanks
- Thread starter Autumn Child
- Start date
Actually, I agree with rhino, since Peru used T-55 before, retraining their crew on how to use and maintain a chinese tank which is based partially on russian design might be simpler than switching to a radical new design.
The problem with unknown tank is we don't how it could perform it's role. The VT-1A wasn't combat tested... and we don't really know much about it, which isn't the most reassuring thing.
But I believe that there were still others option availables (other than VT1A and Leo 2), US is selling some of theirs Abrams (I don't know if they would sell them to Peru though....). British Challenger could be a good choice (the Challenger's armor have proven to be one of the toughest) or maybe French LeClerc. I'm naming those tanks because they were exported to numerous country notably Jordan acquiring Challenger MBT. I do agree, those are expensive. Otherwise if you want something less expensive but still well-proven, there's the whole M60 series, M60A3, M60 Sabra or the newest M60-2000S variant (a M60 chassis with a M1A1 turret, gun and FCS, with a much small price tag than the Abrams). Or even the Brasilian EE-T2 can be considered (I don't know if Brazil is still offering this tank for export though...).
What I mean is the VT-1A isn't a standout or have good reputation, that's why I'm surprised that this tank actually got the contract.
The problem with unknown tank is we don't how it could perform it's role. The VT-1A wasn't combat tested... and we don't really know much about it, which isn't the most reassuring thing.
But I believe that there were still others option availables (other than VT1A and Leo 2), US is selling some of theirs Abrams (I don't know if they would sell them to Peru though....). British Challenger could be a good choice (the Challenger's armor have proven to be one of the toughest) or maybe French LeClerc. I'm naming those tanks because they were exported to numerous country notably Jordan acquiring Challenger MBT. I do agree, those are expensive. Otherwise if you want something less expensive but still well-proven, there's the whole M60 series, M60A3, M60 Sabra or the newest M60-2000S variant (a M60 chassis with a M1A1 turret, gun and FCS, with a much small price tag than the Abrams). Or even the Brasilian EE-T2 can be considered (I don't know if Brazil is still offering this tank for export though...).
What I mean is the VT-1A isn't a standout or have good reputation, that's why I'm surprised that this tank actually got the contract.
Xinhui posted this on CDF
clearly, they went through an intensive evaluation process. It looks like MBT-2000 is the one that came on top. China thought it could win by sending in a purely export version at cut throat cost, but they were told it had to reach a certain technical perfomrnace. And they certainly have the ability to do it if you consider how much hype they are putting behind T-99A2. It's just up to them to decide how much they want to allow to be exported. After all, they are never going to export their best stuff. And I think reading the above, it looks like what they are willing to export now will fulfill all the requirements. It's just a matter of putting the new tank together.
if i were China i'd agree to their demand. what's the best they could ask for? prolly a Type96 level? its about getting the market shares, if they decide to go with say Russian tanks, then they'll be buying Russian tanks for years to come.
leo-2 120mm L-55 tank gun has muzzle energy 14 mega joules,while muzzle energy for 120mm L-45 calibre is 11 mj. for 2a46 -9 mj.
muzzle ensergy for Zpt-98 (type-98/99) tank gun is "near 30%" higher than RH-120,L-45 .(diic),but lower than L-55.
but at 46ton there's no way for VT-1A let alone MBT-2000 able to survive hit from leo-2 L-55 ,unless extra armour,or installation of active defense system.
such as wedish LED-200 being currently installed in jordanian tank test demontrated it manage to intercept 2 105mm APDSFS round.
muzzle ensergy for Zpt-98 (type-98/99) tank gun is "near 30%" higher than RH-120,L-45 .(diic),but lower than L-55.
but at 46ton there's no way for VT-1A let alone MBT-2000 able to survive hit from leo-2 L-55 ,unless extra armour,or installation of active defense system.
such as wedish LED-200 being currently installed in jordanian tank test demontrated it manage to intercept 2 105mm APDSFS round.
What you say make alot of sense. I do agree that VT-1A is not battle tested or no one know how well it will fare in actual battle field and those tanks you pointed out are actually very established worldwide. However we must not forget that Peru is not a rich country, and to have a very advance tank (although good) is not enough.
Unless Peru had a very well establish maintanence line... and all the advance knowledge to repair and maintain the electronic devices, those tanks are actually sitting ducks.
If the Chinese actually agreed to help them establish maintanence lines, teach them the technical know-how on how to maintain and repair the systems, then I think it is a clear deal.
Because up till now, none of us actually know what was the actual package of the sales so it is very difficult to know why Peru is buying the tank.
And although as posted by someone, the Chinese seemed to have meet the initial requirement of Peru government, but the main things still boils down to alot of other considerations... and if the infrastructure could support the tank.
Finally it is not always the best equipment or weapon to win a contest and get a deal... sometime other consideration such as,
1) The package that came with the deal. (weapon, spare parts, license, technology transfer, etc)
2) The current infrastructure of the country
3) Logistical simplicity
4) Crew training
5) Adversaries weapons
6) Tactics and policy
7) Politic
I got this from talking to Eckherl on defencetalk, this should settle it.
I have no reason to really doubt what Eckherl is saying here, since this pretty much agrees with everything else we've been hearing. Let's just say that what they are exporting to Peru is much better than what they had been exporting before (including the basis for Al-khalid)
thanks tp. good to know china is making a good step towards its arms export sector. win-win for both
while TYPE-96/MBT-2000 vt-1a armed with standard 48 cal./125mm tank gun, the gun is not exact clone copy of russian 2a46m-1,according to 2003 Chinese magazine, Chinese technician make some refinement,by increasing her firing chamber, this make her muzzle energy greater than original russian 125mm tank gun.
The EE-T2 is long gone. Engesa went bankrupt int he early 90s. And I thought the Challenger production line has closed, no?
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Ah, no technical support killed the Leo 2.
As Rhino said, Peru isn't a rich country. Operating a Chinese tank, which probably feature a bit more utilitarian features than a Westerner like a Leo, could simplify logistics. Also, being a poor country, their infrastructure is probably kind of weak, maybe bridges with a 50 ton limit load(just an idea. 50 is a good number).
Since the VT-1A and the Russian tanks share more or less the same gun, although modified, and that the Russian guns have all failed requirement 3 without ATGMs, China is probably exporting their own ATGMs for this tank as well.
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Ah, no technical support killed the Leo 2.
As Rhino said, Peru isn't a rich country. Operating a Chinese tank, which probably feature a bit more utilitarian features than a Westerner like a Leo, could simplify logistics. Also, being a poor country, their infrastructure is probably kind of weak, maybe bridges with a 50 ton limit load(just an idea. 50 is a good number).
Since the VT-1A and the Russian tanks share more or less the same gun, although modified, and that the Russian guns have all failed requirement 3 without ATGMs, China is probably exporting their own ATGMs for this tank as well.