Peru is buying Chinese tanks

Spike said:

I don't think you need to continuously attack someone who holds a different opinion from you, yet is being polite about it. I also don't see how a link to an older tank is relevant in this discussion, but it's unnecessary to be so defensive about it.

Click to expand...

It's not about holding a different opinion. Its about wrong and correct. As this forum is look into by thousands of people world wide including some important military analyst. It is important to convey the correct information and let them have the correct judgement.

Forum is also about projecting the correct information to speak up the truth .

Semi-Lobster said:

It's a much more direct ancestry than that but you're right. What's most relevant about this is that the MBT-2000 has 10% parts commonality from the Type 59, 15% from the Type 69, and 20% from the Type 85/88C which means research, testing and mass-production can be done very quickly and efficiently. Whats most important about the MBT-2000 is the 55% of the tank that is new.

Click to expand...

At this present, we are arguing the ancestry of MBT2000 and Type-96 MBT... which seriously I found to be pointless. It is not the ancestors of the MBT that actually matter in this case or in whatever case.

From the point of view of a designer and manufacturer, it is easier to evolve a design rather than creating something radical and totally new. The reason is simple - cost and time saving. Older design had already been proven, their advantages had been exploited and their weaknesses had been known.

Thus what we should be looking at is the effectiveness of the tank design and the capability of the said tank and not who or what it is evolved from.

If it were really an extension of T-54, they wouldn't have bought it. They obviously had other choices.

And if they really want Russian tanks that's in the family tree of T-54 they could have just bought T-90s from Russia.

Well, the T-54 was a great tank of its era, possibly even one of the best tanks of all time. No real shame in being in its lineage.

Mods note >> Knock off the minor league flaming or warnings will be issued:nono:

bd popeye super moderator

Honestly, I don't think the Chinese will win Peru's tank competition; the market for tanks is pretty saturated with tons of slightly used Leopard 2's being sold by the Germans and the Dutch. Unless the Chinese can SIGNIFICANTLY undercut in price (for example, the Dutch sold Leopard 2 A4's for $5.5 million per vehicle to the Norwegians), I just don't see the Chinese winning the contract.

Pointblank said:

Honestly, I don't think the Chinese will win Peru's tank competition; the market for tanks is pretty saturated with tons of slightly used Leopard 2's being sold by the Germans and the Dutch. Unless the Chinese can SIGNIFICANTLY undercut in price (for example, the Dutch sold Leopard 2 A4's for $5.5 million per vehicle to the Norwegians, I just don't see the Chinese winning the contract.

Click to expand...

With VT-1A already use by Peru army and ride on parade. And its defense minister openly declare very close to signing the deal with the Chinese side.

I don't know how you got the idea Chinese is going to lose it?

And Chinese is rich at the moment (they can easily lend generous loan with very low interest )and need huge natural resources. Barter trade is definitely welcome while it will not be the same for Germany, Ukarine and Russian who prefer in hard cash.

Plus military deal is not all about politics only. It must be also the good merit of VT-1A that Peru army prefer it at the moment. Don't forget, they need to compete against chilean Leopard A4. VT-1A might have prove itself to be in the leading contention of the deal.

Pointblank said:

Honestly, I don't think the Chinese will win Peru's tank competition; the market for tanks is pretty saturated with tons of slightly used Leopard 2's being sold by the Germans and the Dutch. Unless the Chinese can SIGNIFICANTLY undercut in price (for example, the Dutch sold Leopard 2 A4's for $5.5 million per vehicle to the Norwegians), I just don't see the Chinese winning the contract.

Click to expand...

Giving the price of the Leopard you quoted, I think the Chinese tanks have huge competition space with its price at about 1 million (correct me if I'm wrong), and the latest tank of China is only about 2 million, right?

Why use USD when Peru has plenty of natural resources to barter? Win win.

From the following news article, the Chinese Government provided Peru with better financing terms. Recently there's been talks of improving economic and tourism ties between China and Peru. Currently only 8,000 Chinese tourists visit Peru annually. Xinhua article claims that if direct flights are implemented, the number could climb as high as 300,000 annually. Not sure what kind of plane you need to fly direct (nonstop?) from China to Peru?

Peru's army has 300 T-55 and 110 AMX-13 tanks in its inventory. Most of their tanks, APC's, and armored cars are vintage equipment. The PRC could provide T-55 rebuild/upgrades like the Al-Zarrar with T-59D/P technology, but I think they'd prefer to just sell new tanks, and hopefully make a good enough impression to sell ships and planes later.

=======================



Politics | 10 December, 2009 [ 19:57 ]
Peru's President confirms purchase of MBT-2000 tanks from China

LivinginPeru.com
Isabel Guerra

President Garcia told the press that he considers as “correct” the decision of the Army and the Ministry of Defense to purchase Chinese tanks, and stressed that such a decision "doesn't contradict our vocation against an arms race."

He advanced that this acquisition is “almost a fact” and that the respective draft agreements with the Asian country have already been signed.

Garcia Perez added that thanks to his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao, "we got an important reduction, not in price, but in the first payment, and in the period of time in which they must be paid."

The President explained that those tanks “are advanced technology,” and that this purchase is due to the fact that many of Peru's T-55 tanks need to be replaced.

He also said that it would he “irresponsible and unpatriotic” to talk openly about the tank's technical specifications to the media, but that it might be discussed by the Defense Commission in Congress.