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plawolf

Lieutenant General
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As with all stories, the key is not the where or the who or the when, but rather the why. At first glance, this may seems like a bit of a bone headed move as this will sap western support for the rebels in Syria, and maybe that's the whole point, in which case its pretty clever.

It would be a given that these guys would not have been getting any of the funding and weapons the Gulf States and CIA have been secretly funnelling into Syria anyways, and if they really do want to establish an extremist Islamic state in Syria, many of the other rebel groups would oppose them if and when they topple Assad. Thus, they are not really paying much of a penalty in openly declaring for Al-Q, but in return, they get funding, weapons and support from all of Al-Q's backers and supporters world wide. But more importantly, it makes it harder for the Gulf states, and especially the Americans and other western powers to justify openly supporting, funding and equipping the other Syrian rebels, as the opposition in those countries will raise this as an example of the dangers of providing support and weapons to people who may well use those equipment and weapons to attack the west in the future just like the Taliban.

This will weaken the Syrian rebel groups who would actually stand and fight against the Islamic extremist and make it that much more likely that the Islamic extremists will emerge on top after the Syrian government is toppled and the free for all to grab power ensures.

It is also interesting and telling in that it would appear that the Islamic extremists are already starting to think about the power struggle after Assad and are even willing to risk (or indeed actively try to) weaken the anti-Assad coalition as a whole by making it harder and less likely for foreign governments to support the rebel movement. This is either a demonstration of great confidence or desperation. Only time will tell which it is.
 

Franklin

Captain
What a headline

Syria: Al-Qaeda's battle for control of Assad's chemical weapons plant

A battle near a factory believed to be one of the Syrian regime's main chemical weapons plants shows just how close such weapons could be to falling into al-Qaeda's hands, writes Colin Freeman.

Set amid the rolling plains outside Aleppo, the town of al-Safira looks just like another vicious battleground in Syria's civil war. On one side are lightly-armed rebels, on the other are government troops, and in between is a hotly-contested no-man's land of bombed-out homes and burned-out military vehicles.

The fight for al-Safira is no ordinary turf war, however, and the prize can be found behind the perimeter walls of the heavily-guarded military base on the edge of town. Inside what looks like a drab industrial estate is one of Syria's main facilities for producing chemical weapons - and among its products is sarin, the lethal nerve gas that the regime is now feared to be deploying in its bid to cling to power.

Last week, Washington said for the first time that it had evidence of Sarin being used in "small" amounts during combat operations in Syria, a move that President Barack Obama has long warned is a "red line" that President Bashar al-Assad must not cross.

But as the West now ponders its response, the fear is not just that President Assad might start using his chemical arsenal in much greater quantities. Of equal concern is the prospect of it falling into even less benign hands - a risk that the stand-off at al Safira illustrates clearly.

For among the rebel lines in al-Safira flutters the black flag of the al-Nusra Brigade, the jihadist group that recently declared its allegiance to al-Qaeda. Known for their fighting prowess honed in Iraq, they are now taking the lead in nearly every frontline in the Syrian war, and earlier this month, pushed to within just over a mile of al-Safira, only to for the Syrian troops to regain the ground last week.

Should the tide of battle turn in al-Nusra's favour again, though, there is the possibility of the West's worst-case scenario unfolding - Syria's weapons of mass destruction falling into al-Qaeda's control. More than 500 times as toxic as cyanide and deadly in milligram-sized doses, a single canister of sarin could unleash carnage if released on a Tube network in London or New York.

Such grim possibilities are now uppermost in the minds of Western officials as they try to work out how to prevent Syria's vast chemical stockpiles being unleashed, be it by President Assad on his own people, or by his more extreme opponents on the outside world.

Yet it is not just at al-Safira that the danger lies. As the Syrian uprising has intensified in the past year, the regime has been secretly moving its stockpiles to weapons dumps all over the country, much of which it barely controls anymore. Nobody knows, therefore, when or where a cache might be captured by the opposition's more militant factions.

"The West may be saying: 'A red line has been crossed, let's do something'. But the question is what exactly can they do?" said Dina Esfandiary, an expert on Syria's WMD programme with the International Institute for Strategic Studies, the London-based defence and security think-tank. "Syria's stockpiles of chemical weapons are huge, and President Assad has done a very good job of hiding them all over the country."

The Syrian regime's chemical warchest is indeed vast - the biggest in the Middle East, and the fourth largest in the world. Started in the 1970s ranks with help from Syria's Cold War sponsor, Russia, today its programme includes facilities for making mustard gas, sarin and another nerve agent, VX, which stays lethal for much longer after dispersal.

In charge of the programme is the innocuous-sounding Scientific Studies and Research Centre outside Damascus, a body officially tasked with academic research. In practice, it reports directly to President Assad and operates a string of chemical production facilities, some allegedly developed with help from Iran and North Korea.

As Syria has not signed the international Chemical Weapons Convention, it has never declared details of its stockpiles to the outside world. But outside intelligence estimates reckon that Damascus has between 100 and 200 warheads filled with sarin for its Scud missiles, and thousands of chemical artillery bombs filled with sarin and VX.

Nobody outside the Assad regime now knows for certain where the stockpiles are now: the contents of the plant at Safira, for example, may have been moved to other, more secret storage spaces for safekeeping. But that uncertainty adds to the challenge. With such a vast arsenal scattered nationwide, the West would face a formidable task were it to attempt to secure it by force.

In December, the Pentagon told the Obama administration that it would require upward of 75,000 troops - almost half the number it took to topple Saddam Hussein. Such numbers would amount to an invasion in everything but name, and would doubtless attract hostility from both of Syria's warring sides.

An alternative would be smaller, ad hoc strikes of the sort that Israel has already admitted to doing to stop the weapons falling into the hands of its Lebanon-based enemy Hezbollah, whose Assad-backed fighters are now in Syria helping defend the regime. But these would not be practical for a large-scale neutralisation of the country's chemical threat, according to Ms Esfandiary.

"Airstrikes aren't reliable because they can just release all the chemical agents into the air," she said. "Alternatively, they only do half the job and then render a secure site open to looters."

Nor, she added, would quick-fire raids by small teams of special forces be an alternative. "You would have to first secure the sites and then do a careful analysis of what was there, followed by controlled explosions. It is, frankly, a labour intensive job, and that is why the Pentagon assessed it as requiring 75,000 men.

"Besides, there may be any number of caches hidden all over the place, and even if you could look for them properly - which is difficult with a civil war going on - you would run the risk of some being left behind."

Not all the sites represent a genuine danger. Some store only the basic component chemicals, which must be mixed first before being weaponised, processes which require technical know-how. But others have cannisters full of battle-ready nerve agents, which could be operated in crude fashion simply by breaking them open.

"They might not be quite as effective in amateur hands, but the fact is that they are containers full of very nasty stuff, and if they were opened on a Tube train it would very dangerous," said Ms Esfandiary. "As an instrument of terror, they also have a fear factor that more conventional weapons don't have."

Despite that, many analysts believe that the "red line" is now simply being blurred rather than crossed. With only limited evidence of Sarin use so far, they suspect Damascus is deliberately using such weapons just occasionally to test - and gradually undermine - Washington's resolve. President Assad, they reason, knows all too well that a major chemical attack would leave the US no option but to take action. But successive, smaller ones are a harder call, while still having the desired effect of spreading terror among Damascus's foes.

Outside of Syria, it also has another desired effect - underlining the differences between Mr Assad's opponents in the West. Last week, the hawkish US Republican senator, John McCain, who lost to Mr Obama in the 2008 presidential race, called on America to send in troops to secure factories such as al Safira. But Mr Obama shows no enthusiasm for doing so, and this weekend he even appeared to adjust his language slightly, saying that America would not permit the "systematic" use of chemical weapons. Critics pointed out that proscribing the use of chemical weapons on a "systematic" basis is not the same as proscribing their use altogether.

Yesterday, the Syrian information minister, Omran al-Zohbi, described the US claims of chemical weapons use as a "barefaced lie", insisting that for both legal and "moral" reasons, Damascus would never deploy them. But with Syria's civil war escalating daily, nobody - least of all a Syrian government minister - can guarantee that al Safira's deadly concoctions will remain safe forever.

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delft

Brigadier
What a headline



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A thoughtless article. The bright thing to do now is to condemn the terrorists and let the legitimate government defeat them. A lot of damage has been done to Syria so the country should go to the court in The Hague and demand compensation from the sponsors of the terrorists. Nearly a century and a half ago the US extracted compensation from Great Britain for the building in Liverpool of the cruiser Alabama for the defeated Confederation and then there wasn't an international court.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
A thoughtless article. The bright thing to do now is to condemn the terrorists and let the legitimate government defeat them.
A lot of damage has been done to Syria so the country should go to the court in The Hague and demand compensation from the sponsors of the terrorists. Nearly a century and a half ago the US extracted compensation from Great Britain for the building in Liverpool of the cruiser Alabama for the defeated Confederation and then there wasn't an international court. Such compensation would discourage sponsoring terrorism and thus make the world a safer place.

One thing I can say is that under the current regime Syria was peaceful, I visited in summer of 2004 and in the same town within walking distance you had a church, mosque and synagogue, Shia and Sunnis side by side, turkoman, Kurdish, Armenian, Arab, Alwaites all inter marrying

Now it's everyone vs everyone, so the regime must have got something right if all that was stable at the time
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
1) The ICC is just another tool built by, staff by and run by west for the advancement of western interests. It will never rule against core western interests. And the 'god given right' to play judge, jury and executioner on other people's affairs has long been a core western interest.

Simply look at how critical snd hotly contested any nomination for the US Supreme Court is to both US parties and you can easily see that even in the poster child of free and independent judiciary, it is pretty simple to get the verdict you want without needing to resort to crude tactics like bribery and threats by making damn sure the people in position to decide are strongly biased in your favour to start with and that they will always stick to their convictions.

The ICC is no different. Since the west controls its purse strings and appointments, all they need to do is carefully vet candidates and only appoint those predisposed to side with their interests snd positins to make sure the ICC will always do its duty and dutifully come to the decisions the west wants without anyone having to tell them to do so. It is a far more refined and elegant solution to direct political control over the judiciary, but it is only marginally less effective at producing exactly the results those in power want, with the tiny element of chance overwhelmingly compensated for by those in power being able to play the 'independent judiciary' card.

2) Even if by some minor miracle the ICC does decide against the west, its decisions are meaningless and toothless since it has no ability to enforce its decisions. The US was able to exact compensation from the UK just like how the western powers were able to extra reperations from China for the Wars of aggression they started - the threat of military force if you do not comply.

The US has always held itself and its citizens as unaccountable to anyone or body other than itself. Hell, it flatly refused to sign up to any treaty or organisation that might then have authority to try and pass judgement on any US personnel or interests, and that includes the ICC.

So how exactly will anyone get the USA to pay up if the ICC does impose a fine?

The world we live in is ultimately ruled at its most basic level by the age old rule of might = right. The west and America in particular are mighty, thus they will never be found to be in the wrong unless they are proven to be not as mighty as they and the world thought. And sadly, the only realistic way that will happen is if and when they fight someone even mightier than themselves and are soundly defeated for themselves and all the world to see.

Only the leaders of the defeated and vanquished will ever find themselves in the dock at the ICC.
 

delft

Brigadier
I was not thinking of ICC which is indeed a ridiculous institution. It only prosecutes African leaders who have irked Western leaders. But there are several other international courts in The Hague. I vaguely remember a case in which even the American judge voted against the US. And just by bringing their cases to The Hague Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and eventually Iran, can damage the standing of countries that are by now militarily weaker than they think themselves.
I can imagine that Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, the UK and France are sentenced to pay Syria while the US escapes. But that will just damage the US in the eyes of these countries.
 

delft

Brigadier
My Dutch newspaper writes today that a UN commission led by Carla Del Ponte has concluded that it were "rebels" who used Sarin poison gas in Syria. This would take away one reason for the US to attack Syria, so perhaps they asked Israel to support the terrorists with air attacks.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
My Dutch newspaper writes today that a UN commission led by Carla Del Ponte has concluded that it were "rebels" who used Sarin poison gas in Syria. This would take away one reason for the US to attack Syria, so perhaps they asked Israel to support the terrorists with air attacks.

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Funny how everyone is downplaying this and stressing incessantly that it is not a conclusive finding, I somehow doubt there would have been such restraint and calls to wait for the final report had the initial indications been that it was the Syrian government that were the ones who used chemical weapons.

That BBC article even went so far as to state that, "Ms Del Ponte did not rule out the possibility that troops loyal to President Bashar al-Assad might also have used chemical weapons, but said further investigation was needed", but in the video interview she gave, she specifically stressed that there was no evidence that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons. She was so adement she repeated 'no' twice.

That is a direct contradiction of the facts and as deliberate an attempt to twist what was said as I have seen in a long while. Despite all my criticism of the BBC over the years, it was still stunning to see such a blatant inversion of the facts.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
China gave a strong opposition to the recent Israeli air force raid into Syria, that is despite the fact that the Israeli prime minister is coming to China for a rare visit
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
But more importantly, it makes it harder for the Gulf states, and especially the Americans and other western powers to justify openly supporting, funding and equipping the other Syrian rebels, as the opposition in those countries will raise this as an example of the dangers of providing support and weapons to people who may well use those equipment and weapons to attack the west in the future just like the Taliban.

This will weaken the Syrian rebel groups who would actually stand and fight against the Islamic extremist and make it that much more likely that the Islamic extremists will emerge on top after the Syrian government is toppled and the free for all to grab power ensures.
Actually, the exact opposite is true.

Now, the US and the West in general will be absolutely disposed to identifying non-Al Quida rebels to fund and support...and support them to the max.

The US and the West will not allow Syria's WMDs to fall into the hands of an Al Quida supported regime and the biggest mistake these people could make would be, at this stage to come out in open support or alliance with Al Quida.


If they have done that, the the US and West's hands will be tied (and understandably so) in terms of support for any of those groups...and they will look to support other rebel groups who also oppose Al Quida.

Anyhow, all around it is a very dicey and difficult situation.
 
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