Peace Mission 2005

MIGleader said:

humvees are a bit too heavy to transport in large #'s. thats why they have the light attach vehicle.

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... Firt time I heard that, HUMVEE are too heavy..., the only limit to transport HUMVEE in a C-130 Hercule for exemple, is the cargo space, but otherwise, even a Black Hawk can lift your "little" HUMVEE. The Fast Attack vehicule is not enough armored, could be a problem...

If I remember correctly, a CH-53 can lift a LAV.

How heavy is an armored Humvee?
I don't think I would use the Humvee if I have the FAV though. It's not armored, but it's more flexible, faster.

The element is afterall speed and agility.

rommel said:

... Firt time I heard that, HUMVEE are too heavy..., the only limit to transport HUMVEE in a C-130 Hercule for exemple, is the cargo space, but otherwise, even a Black Hawk can lift your "little" HUMVEE. The Fast Attack vehicule is not enough armored, could be a problem...

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i said in large #'s, not that it couldn't be lifted. if you wan to lift a humvee, it cant be armored. alot of humvees in iraq arn't armored

MIGleader said:

i said in large #'s, not that it couldn't be lifted. if you wan to lift a humvee, it cant be armored. alot of humvees in iraq arn't armored

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What are you talking about, a HUMVEE can be armored and lifted in the same time, an armored and armed HUMVEE is weighting 6,000lb. A lot of HUMVEE are not armored in Iraq is not because their are too heavy, it's only that the US Army don't have the logistic and the plate to armored them all. Even the M998 Cargo/Troop Carrier HUMVEE (that's the most basic version without even weapon mount) is already kind of armored (the chassis can stop pistol bullet) now, think about the combat version... The other armor is used to stop assault rifle bullet at short range and sometime even heavy bullet on longer range (12,7mm or 14,5mm)

Sumdum, even the 19 tons Stryker can be lifted by CH-53, why the the HUMVEE could not ?? The Black Hawk can also lifted a armored HUMVEE (the Black Hawk can carry 10,000lb)

By the way, some fact about HUMVEE

Length: 15 ft
Width: 7.08 ft
Height : 6.00 feet reducible to 4.5 feet
Weight: 5,200 lbs
Engine: V8, 6.2 litre displacement, fuel injected diesel, liquid cooled, compression ignition
Horsepower: 150 at 3,600 RPM
Transmission: 3 speed, automatic
Transfer case: 2 speed, locking, chain driven
Electrical system: 24 volt, negative ground, 60 amps
Brakes: Hydraulic, 4-wheeled disc
Fording depth: without preparation: 2.5 ft (76.2 cm)
with deep water fording kit : 5 ft (1.5 m)
Fuel type: Diesel
Fuel capacity: 25 gallons
Range: 350 miles highway
Max speed: 65 mph

It's enough fast for attack mission... and it can also carry some heavier weapon than the FAV (M2HB .50 HMG or Mk.19 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher or even the Avenger System)

Obcession said:

Ok, nothing makes better targets than a dropping paratrooper!

They are useless!

Heli insertions are better.

And I think those are supplies not paratroopers. They make the supply drop chutes different color probably, like ammo is red etc.

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HUm and who told you such a stupidity?

With a correct HILO procedure and an average spreading your guys would be able to endure les than 20% of casualties when landing.

When chopper insterted you face the risk of loosing the whole crew ...chechnya anyone, Somalia Anyone, Iraq anyone? Besides night drops are still the best alternative a force on the building process has.

cool pics, cool discussions, you guys are all cool

dont you mean HALO jump red? whats so special about HAHO then?

Red not Dead said:

HUm and who told you such a stupidity?

With a correct HILO procedure and an average spreading your guys would be able to endure les than 20% of casualties when landing.

When chopper insterted you face the risk of loosing the whole crew ...chechnya anyone, Somalia Anyone, Iraq anyone? Besides night drops are still the best alternative a force on the building process has.

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Ok, here's my view on the disadvantages of paratroopers, we all know their advantages so I won't mention them.

1. They are very hard to extract from the battlefield, so you basically have to overrun enemy forces with your ground forces to relieve them.

2. They did very bad in WWII, what makes you think they can fare better today? Another weakness of theirs is the lack of firepower. If they're not relieved quick enough, they'd just be mown down by enemy armor. Which brings to another point:

3. Paratroopers traditionally have high casualty rates. For every day they are out in the field, they take many casualties and lose a lot of precious ammunition, something, which is irreplaceable to the paratroopers. Of course you can do a supply drop, but a lot of it is going to end up on the wrong hands. With the use of thermal sights and flares they'd just be sitting ducks when they drop, even in a night drop.

4. Lack of mobility, most paratroopers will be foot infantry, with a small portion that gets jeeps. That means they have to be dropped very close to their objective, and if it's an objective, you can be sure it's well guarded.

Oh and, HALO doesn't fare much better than HAHO against ground fire.

the best way to get tour paratroops in is from an inconspicous area, then link em up with your main force. helicopters will certainly help.

Obcession said:

Ok, here's my view on the disadvantages of paratroopers, we all know their advantages so I won't mention them.

1. They are very hard to extract from the battlefield, so you basically have to overrun enemy forces with your ground forces to relieve them.

2. They did very bad in WWII, what makes you think they can fare better today? Another weakness of theirs is the lack of firepower. If they're not relieved quick enough, they'd just be mown down by enemy armor. Which brings to another point:

3. Paratroopers traditionally have high casualty rates. For every day they are out in the field, they take many casualties and lose a lot of precious ammunition, something, which is irreplaceable to the paratroopers. Of course you can do a supply drop, but a lot of it is going to end up on the wrong hands. With the use of thermal sights and flares they'd just be sitting ducks when they drop, even in a night drop.

4. Lack of mobility, most paratroopers will be foot infantry, with a small portion that gets jeeps. That means they have to be dropped very close to their objective, and if it's an objective, you can be sure it's well guarded.

Oh and, HALO doesn't fare much better than HAHO against ground fire.

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Ok, first point Wrong. extraction of paratroopers is mainly a planning/execution issue. That has thus nothing to with the intrinsic nature of the para force. In WW2 they did ...bad because it was the first US para "live" manoeuver. But at the opposite the germans did fairly well in Belgium, in France and Greece. the only dark spot is operation merkur in Creta but that's the next point and tech has moved on.

Lack of fire power? Dead Wrong. Airmech anyone? The whole BMD series, Sprut D and BMP-k can be air dropped. TOW? Kornet? LOSAT?

Even the new FCS system is supposed to be airborne.

NVG, PNG? You got the same what's the big difference.

Mobility? Wrong again. See Supra.