Pakistan News Thread

D

Deleted member 675

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Had she contested elections, she would have ended up losing and that was probably the best way to neutralize her.

Her party would have probably been the largest, if it didn't have a majority.

She was far from perfect, but she was the least worst of a bad bunch - which says something about the state of Pakistani politics.

I simply wonder why the Western media doesn't bother to question the 'democracy' that has just taken place within the party that is supposed to bring democracy to Pakistan...

Normally the North American and European media is criticised by people like yourself for "over-analysing" and pushing a POV, rather than just reporting the news. Now it is criticised for not analysing what has happened and just for reporting the news.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Besides, have the "non-Western media" jumped to decry this? Not from what I can see.
 
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crazyinsane105

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Her party would have probably been the largest, if it didn't have a majority.

She was far from perfect, but she was the least worst of a bad bunch - which says something about the state of Pakistani politics.



Normally the North American and European media is criticised by people like yourself for "over-analysing" and pushing a POV, rather than just reporting the news. Now it is criticised for not analysing what has happened and just for reporting the news.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Besides, have the "non-Western media" jumped to decry this? Not from what I can see.

There is much more support for Musharraf than people think. The MQM and MMA parties are on Musharraf's side as is his own party (which also has quite a bit of support) as is the military. We would have seen a repeat of the 2002 elections. PPP may have made some more gains (the extremist parties are set to lose big time, but they hold about 10% of the total seats in parliament, their largest gain in Pakistani history I believe). Then there is Nawaz Sharif's party who has always been at odds with Benazir. So it's not just PPP versus Musharraf. If that were the case, then all of Pakistan would be up in riots (which have mostly calmed down from what I am hearing), but it only took place in the Sindh province of Pakistan (the virtual powerhouse of Bhutto and the PPP).

Pakistan's media has also picked up on the fact that blatant US support for Bhutto hurt her much more politically than it did to help her. She blamed Pakistan for the Sikh insurgency in India, both Mumbai blasts, Al Qaeda's presence in Afghanistan, she promised the US to hand over AQ Khan, and even go as far as letting US forces inside Pakistani territory. So it doesn't make any sense for Musharraf or the military to let her back in the country knowing she would have been able to wield significant power. They let her back on the basis she was going to be neutralized politically speaking. Above all, it would go against Pakistan's constitution to let somebody run for Prime Minister three times (she already ran twice).

Pakistan's own media has also been bashing the blatant disregard the US and the West has given to Bhutto. I don't about the Chinese media and what their position is...
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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The Chinese media has been very neutral in tone accept for condeming the assasination. No real surprises there.

Personally I wonder if Mr Bhutto Senior should not be under more scrutiny as regards the murder, as he seems to have done very well out of it. He has inherited a vast sum of money and also controls the son, who will be running his mums party; in between playing computer games and doing homework:roll:.

Seriously, men have murdered their wives for far less than this.

ps expect the new party front bench to all be very pretty and have great breasts!
 
D

Deleted member 675

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So it's not just PPP versus Musharraf.

Did I say it was? If it had been it would have taken a lot more US pressure on Musharraf to ensure she was allowed back in.

Pakistan's media has also picked up on the fact that blatant US support for Bhutto hurt her much more politically than it did to help her

Questionable. One reason elections were scheduled as early as next month is because of foreign pressure. If Bhutto had been ignored by the US and others, Musharraf might have been able to postpone them again and again. The corruption charges against her might also have been maintained.

As for how the voters saw her, I doubt it would make a difference. If it did then Washington wouldn't have given her its support.

I don't about the Chinese media and what their position is...

I don't think the Chinese media has a "position". It rarely does with this type of event, which is hardly surprising given how frequently the English-language websites regurgitate AFP/Reuters articles.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Why would the Chinese take a side except for the side of stability? Even though Bhutto was as they say in the US, "pro-American," she would've known more than anyone that the US has proven unreliable since she was in office in the turmoil of post-abandonment in favor of India. I'd think at least the Chinese would know the Pakstanis won't ever trust the US fully and not suddenly do to China in favor of the US as what was done to them in favor of India. The military relation seems to very close since Pakistanis seem to have access to the PLA more than any other except maybe Russia.

Maybe crazyinsane would know more but is there a party in Pakistan that would break-off relations with China. The only scenario I see is if Al Qaeda actually took over Pakistan because in one of Bin Laden's video, he seemed to want to send a message to the powers of the world and he included China.
 

crazyinsane105

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Why would the Chinese take a side except for the side of stability? Even though Bhutto was as they say in the US, "pro-American," she would've known more than anyone that the US has proven unreliable since she was in office in the turmoil of post-abandonment in favor of India. I'd think at least the Chinese would know the Pakstanis won't ever trust the US fully and not suddenly do to China in favor of the US as what was done to them in favor of India. The military relation seems to very close since Pakistanis seem to have access to the PLA more than any other except maybe Russia.

Maybe crazyinsane would know more but is there a party in Pakistan that would break-off relations with China. The only scenario I see is if Al Qaeda actually took over Pakistan because in one of Bin Laden's video, he seemed to want to send a message to the powers of the world and he included China.

Unfortunately the US has been her biggest supporter. The media blitz by the US and to an extent Britain (but mostly the US) simply shows the tremendous amount of support the US had for Bhutto. The problem with Bhutto was that every time she was in power, the amount of distrust between the Pakistani military and civilian government grew tremendously. Yes China did help Pakistan in terms of military power, but it wasn't until Musharraf came to power did land mark milestones happen (the Chinese involvement in Gwadar for example). Although her assassination was a horrible thing, there are few, if any, in the military saddened by her death. Had Bhutto been elected, we might as well have said good bye to Gwadar and good bye to the Iran-Pakistan natural gas pipeline deal...

From what I know, there is no political group in Pakistan that wants a complete cut off from China. And as for Al Qaeda taking over Pakistan, I know what you're saying is from a hypothetical point of view (and yes they'd probably cut off connections with not only China but any non-Muslim country), but just look at how badly Al Qaeda has fared in trying to take over countries: Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Chechnya, etc. I have doubts they'll be taking over Pakistan anytime soon...

From what I know, there isn't any group in Pakistan that would
 

mxiong

Junior Member
PM not allowed to go near its own nuclear facilities? It's like Bush is denied access to Area 51 by DoD. Sounds like Pakistani military doesn't take every order from the government, that's really dangerous regarding the use of strategic weapons. Who makes the final call with a civilian PM?
 
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crazyinsane105

Junior Member
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PM not allowed to go near its own nuclear facilities? It's like Bush is denied access to Area 51 by DoD. Sounds like Pakistani military doesn't take every order from the government, that's really dangerous regarding the use of strategic weapons. Who makes the final call with a civilian PM?

Pakistan's nuclear program was a success because of the cooperation of both the civilian and military officials. Benazir was an exception, she wasn't allowed to go anywhere near the nuke facilities since the Pakistani military didn't trust her at all and viewed her more of an American puppet than anything else. It didn't have much to do with her being a civilian.

Election have been delayed for about six to eight weeks, which is a good thing. PPP officials are angry, but that's because they were hoping to cash in on the sympathy votes of average Pakistanis. Once the ordinary man and women in Pakistan begin to assess the amount of material damage caused by the following riots (which was never condemned by the PPP), the amount of sympathy votes will erode considerably.
 

Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Benazir was not so thoroughly kept in the dark about Pakistan's nuclear and missile projects during her two PM terms as she has suggested to western media since going into exile.

Of course she ´negotiated´ in '93 that dubious deal with Washington about ´halting´ the production of HEU (...naturally India seized the chance to recover meanwhile lost ground in the nuclear race!:D) but she was also responsible for the acquisition of North Korean Rodong IRBM technology leading to the development of the first operational long range missile in Pakistan's arsenal, the Ghauri. In fact Benazir was not so bad at all since she acknowledged at least during her second term that a national nuclear deterrent was a ´conditio sine qua non´ for confronting India's ruthless threats. Nevertheless it is indeed very questionable that she would have had the determination to carry out nuclear tests during a situation of maximum pressure by the US administration like Nawaz Sharif was facing back in '98.

Interestingly India has kept a low profile about Benazir Bhutto's assassination...:confused: May be they learn to appreciate Musharraf as an at least reliable partner...:D
 

PakTopGun

New Member
Wether we liked her or not, as I did not agree 100% with her politics, she was a respected politician who regardless of where one stood on the political scale was well respected, talented, charismatic and intelligent. Despite her failings, these protests and the outcry have proven that she had mass appeal in the Pakistani public and this support transcended national, provincial and ethnic boundaries. In fact many of her former staunchest opposition, welcomed her as the person capable of ousting the much disliked dictator musharaf.

I offer my condolensces to her family, party and the people of Pakistan in such a difficult time.

Terrorism, loss of innocent lives and violent methodology must be condemned in all its facets irrespective of who it affects. Individuals who support it, encourage it should be prosecuted and dealt with accordingly.

The increasing violence and spill over effect from Afghanistan and the consequences of joining the ''War on Terror'' are putting severe strains on Pakistan. Just to remind everyone, Pakistan has lost more troops due to the war in neighbooring Afghanistan then all the international coalition forces combined, a point often overlooked with all the finger pointing was being done against the country. This country has sacrificed so much, and has put so much on the line while functioning on limited resources and social indicator at par with some parts of Africa.

Furthermore, continual American interference have wreaked havoc in the country. What Pakistan does need, is institutionalized support and aid without strings having been a trusted and often neglected ally for some 60 years now. Its people and its institutions are crying out for help, and that help should be delivered to this nation of great potential.

I think at this critical juncture, Pakistan needs to assess its own national issues, and perhaps scale down its support for the war on terror vis-a-vis Afghanistan and begin focussing on its own internal issues, nation building and the restoration of democracy. It should focus on sealing its border with Afghanistan until terrorist acts dramatically decrease and taking down the many militant and former American funded/established ex-Mujahideen forces/camps now better armed than the Pakistani forces. Stability is the key and will have a resounding effect in the region as well as across the border in Afghanistan. Stability, peace and effective democracy will have a more resounding effect then what military operations can achieve. Armed actions will only result in armed retribution particularly when it comes to the Martial legacy of the Pakistani people and of those in neighbooring Afghanistan. The destiny of both country's are intertwinned, and what Pakistan can offer the most is stability, a healthy economy, prosperity, peace, and institutions. Pakistan neither has the financial resources and its western backed dictator the credibility to garner support for what is proving to be a very dangerous mission this ''War on terror''.
 
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