Pakistan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

plawolf

Lieutenant General
It feels like there is a strong political will in Pakistan to go Turkish whenever possible with recent defence procurement deals.

Are the Turks offering better ToT than everyone else? Or is this a deliberate diversification move to stop the Pakistan military becoming too depending on China as a supplier for arms?
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
It feels like there is a strong political will in Pakistan to go Turkish whenever possible with recent defence procurement deals.

Are the Turks offering better ToT than everyone else? Or is this a deliberate diversification move to stop the Pakistan military becoming too depending on China as a supplier for arms?

There isn't any ToT involved on the Milgem deal, unless I've completely misred the article. Also, this isn't a "deliberate" diversification of hardware procurement either. The whole deal wreaks of political PR, where there some deluded idea that Turks are Pakistan's new found Muslim brother nation whom we should have a strong alliance with. After the decades of wagging our tails around the high and mighty Saudi "brothers". The love affair ended with the disastrous decision by the buffoon of a Crown Prince -Muhammad Bin Salman, to approve the announcement by Saudi officials, on the list of countries that will be part of the Saudi led coalition in the War on Yemen. Pakistan's name is listed in that coalition without Pakistan's consent. To make matters worse, they didn't even inform Pakistan's Government of their intent.

So yes, this is the "honeymoon" period of the so-called brotherly relations with yet another so-called Muslim country. Pakistanis think the world of Turks. So much so, that we would get suckered into buying Milgem Corvettes, T-129 Atak and in exchange, they buy 52 Super Mushaks.

Anyone with even half a brain would question what buffoon would ever agree to a deal such as this one.

As a Pakistani, in my view, the only practical ally Pakistan has ever had in existence, is China. And I believe that the weak, illiterate and corrupt politicians of Pakistan, have dangerously flirted with taking our ally China, for granted. Like everything else, the so-called democratic politicians of Pakistan are nothing more than glorified crooks and street thugs.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Nations don't do arms sales purely for the sake of the deal. They pick there systems based on what they feel they need and what they have to pay. Besides as the PRC learned the hard way over reliance on one nation for military technologies can have a downside.
 

timepass

Brigadier
TOP SOUTH AFRICAN DELEGATION VISITING PAKISTAN TO DISCUSS DEFENCE

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On the invitation of Pakistan’s Minister of Defence Production (MoDP) Rana Tanveer Hussain, South Africa’s Minister of Public Enterprises Lynne Brown is on an official three-day visit to Pakistan. This will conclude on Friday, November 03.

“We are very grateful to the Honourable Minister of Defence Production, Mr Rana Tanveer Hussain, for this opportunity to explore the potential to further deepen the relationship between our countries”, said Brown through a statement released by the Ministry of Public Enterprises.

Minister Brown is leading a top-level delegation to Pakistan, which includes the Director-General of the Department of Public Enterprises Mogokare Richard Seleke and Denel Group’s Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Zwelakhe Ntshepe, along with other senior government and Denel officials.

The purpose of the delegation’s visit is to explore potential areas of defence cooperation between Denel, the Pakistani defence industry and the Pakistani armed forces. According to the statement, the delegation will also visit “strategic sites” to discuss collaboratives avenues for Denel Group in Pakistan.

In March, Pakistan and South Africa
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a memorandum-of-understanding (MoU) to bolster bilateral defence ties. The MoU – titled “Defence and Defence Industrial Cooperation” – called for the “acquisition of defence equipment as well as cooperation in Research and Development (R&D), Transfer of Technology, Co-production/Joint Ventures in public as well as private sector.”

In its 2016-2017 financial report, Denel Group
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Pakistan as one of the markets where it will maintain a presence, along with the United Arab Emirates, Algeria, Turkey, Malaysia, Brazil, Kenya, Mozambique, Oman and South Africa (i.e. its domestic market).

In 2016, Denel Land Systems had successfully trialed its T5-52 155 mm/52-calibre self-propelled howitzer (SPH) Pakistan as part of a
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to supply SPHs to the Pakistan Army. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) had expressed interest in the
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high-off-boresight (HOBS) air-to-air missile (AAM) for use on the forthcoming
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.

Notes & Comments:

There are three areas of opportunity for Denel Group to engage the Pakistani industry.

First, the direct sale of complete systems. Denel is already in position of promising weapon systems that are ready or near-ready for sale. The A-Darter HOBS AAM has been slotted as a possible munition for the JF-17 Block-III. Likewise, Denel could also pitch the Raptor III stand-off weapon (300 km range) and Tariq precision-guided bomb (PGB) kit (100-200 km in range) as long-range strike solutions for the JF-17. Denel could also position its
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– i.e. Umkhonto surface-to-air missile (SAM) and 30-mm Dual Purpose Gun (DPG) – as an anti-air warfare (AAW) refit for Pakistan’s F-22P frigates.

Second, the co-development and co-production of future munitions and subsystems could be an avenue of bilateral interest. For its next-generation fighter acquisition plans, the PAF is intent on building a
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for both sourcing and support. Denel could position Denel Dynamics’ Marlin program, which seeks to provide a beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) and SAM from a common core platform (e.g. common dual-pulse rocket motor), for Pakistan’s next-generation AAM requirements. In its recent financial report, Denel announced that it had tested the Marlin’s technology demonstrator.

Third, industry partnerships. Denel Aeronautics and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) can consider co-production efforts in aircraft, aerostructures, maintenance services and other areas. It may be easier to channel these efforts through a tangible joint-program, though it remains to be seen where PAC and Denel can partner without conflicting with the requirements of their respective host countries. That said, similar efforts could also be explored in land and naval defence as well as law-enforcement realms.

While the apparent focus of this visit is to further Denel Group’s market access, the South African defence industry also has other valuable players, such as
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Optronics South Africa (HOSA). The Pakistan Navy is acquiring the HOSA SERO 250 periscope and OMS 200 optronic mast for the Khalid-class Agosta 90B submarine upgrade program. In the optronics space, there is a dearth of suitable helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) systems for fighter aircraft, with Israel-based Elbit maintaining a strong position in the global market for HMD/S. There has yet to be a
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for the JF-17 Block-III. This is a market opportunity for HOSA, especially since it could use the JF-17 as a base for launch orders.

Another major company is
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, which has built a strong portfolio of armoured vehicles. In particular, the Mbombe series aims to provide a diverse capability set, but with a common platform. For example, the 4×4 Mbombe 4 mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicle as well as 6×6 Mbombe-6 and 8×8 Mbombe-8 infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) share 80% in components. Pakistan has
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for AFV and MRAP solutions, but besides
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of such vehicles (mainly MRAP), Pakistan has yet to establish a firm MRAP and AFV production and induction strategy. This can be an opportunity for Paramount Group and Denel Group.

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timepass

Brigadier
PAKISTANI DELEGATION ON OFFICIAL VISIT TO CZECH REPUBLIC

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Pakistan’s Minister of Defence Production (MoDP) Rana Tanveer Hussain is on an official visit to the Czech Republic, along with the Additional Secretary of the MoDP Maj. Gen. Tariq Ghafoor, to promote Pakistan’s defence industry. The two-member delegation left on October 30 to undertake the three-day visit.

According to Pakistan’s state-owned
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, the MoDP delegation will meet with the Czech Republic’s Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Martin Tlapa and the Deputy Minister of Defence Tomas Kuchta. The MoDP will also visit Aero Vodochody and OMNIPOL.

Notes & Comments:

The Czech defence industry has the following interests in the Pakistani market. First, to follow-up on the letter-of-understanding (LOU) Česká zbrojovka (CZ) had
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with Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) in November 2016 to negotiate the sale and transfer-of-technology of small arms to POF. It is believed that the LOU was signed in reference to the Pakistan Army’s rifle trials of 2016, wherein the CZ-807 modular – i.e. 7.62×39 mm and 5.52×45 NATO – assault rifle was tested. The current status of Pakistan’s program is not known, but in April of this year, CZ did
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signing the LOU during a promotional event in Pakistan.

PBS Velká Bíteš had
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its TJ100 miniature turbojet engine to Pakistan’s National Engineering & Scientific Commission (NESCOM). The TJ100, which has a thrust of 1.25 kN, powers target drones. In terms of technical specifications, the PBS TP100 turboprop engine could be a potential option to power Pakistan Aeronautical Complex’s (PAC) medium-altitude long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), which is being developed under
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(resolve).

The MoDP’s visit to Aero Vodochody could suggest that the Czech aircraft manufacturer is interested in marketing its
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L-159 advanced jet trainer to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). It does not appear that the PAF is interested in such a platform. In 2015, the PAF’s Chief of Air Staff (CAS) stated that current lead-in fighter-trainer (LIFT) platforms are over-equipped for the role, with operating costs close to those of the JF-17 and F-16. For the L-159 to draw the PAF’s interest, it would have to maintain markedly lower acquisition and operational costs, whilst also providing substantive performance gains over the K-8.

Considering the MoDP’s intent to promote Pakistan’s defence industry interests in this vist, it is plausible that Pakistan is interested in collaborating with Aero Vodochody, perhaps in subassemblies or spare parts manufacturing. If not partnering, then learning from Aero Vodochody on how to enter the subassemblies and parts manufacturing space, especially for commercial aircraft, could be of value to Pakistan in its efforts to grow its aviation industry (
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). Aero is a risk-sharing partner in the Embraer KC-390 tanker-transport program, it produces the KC-390’s rear fuselage.

OMNIPOL is a defence trading, consulting and support services company. Besides marketing various Czech defence solutions, including the VERA-NG passive sensor system, OMNIPOL is also a supplier of machinery for defence manufacturing purposes. With POF and Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) gearing to upgrade their respective facilities, the MoDP could be potentially be interested in engaging OMNIPOL for solutions. HIT is already using CNC (computer numerical control) machines from Škoda Machine Tool. The MoDP might also be interested in forging partnerships between OMNIPOL and Pakistani companies, especially in terms of jointly engaging third-party markets.

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timepass

Brigadier
ANSAT LIGHTWEIGHT HELICOPTER UNDERGOING PROMOTIONAL TRIALS IN PAKISTAN

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Russian Helicopters Group is demonstrating the
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lightweight helicopter in Pakistan as part of a promotional campaign to market the Ansat to prospective customers.

In its
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, Russian Helicopters states that its objective is to demonstrate the Ansat’s operability in high temperature conditions – i.e. +50° C. Russian Helicopters claims success would validate the Ansat’s capacity to operate in a temperature range of -45° to +50° C.

“Ansat is a very attractive helicopter due to its flight performance characteristics, including for customers from Asia and the Middle East,” said Alexander Shcherbinin, Russian Helicopters’ Deputy Chief Executive Officer for Marketing and Business Development, who added, “I hope that positive test results will turn the interest of potential buyers into a number of agreements.”

Upon competing the trials, Russian Helicopters will hold a conference in Islamabad for prospective clients in Pakistan. The company intends to discuss the Ansat’s competitive advantages.

The Ansat is a general-purpose utility helicopter available to military, civil services and commercial users. It has a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 3,600 kg and is powered by two Pratt and Whitney Canada
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turboshaft engines, each providing over 600 shp. Capable of ferrying up to eight passengers, the Ansat has a cruise speed of 220 km/h, ferry range of 515 km and operational ceiling of nearly 15,750 ft.

Notes & Comments:

It appears that Russian Helicopters is marketing the Ansat to the Pakistani market in general, not just the government and armed forces. However, the latter would be the largest potential market. Currently, the Pakistan Army operates the Airbus Helicopters H125M, while the Aerospatiale SA316 Alouette III is flown by the Army, Navy and Air Force. The Alouette III is seeing use as a search-and-rescue and utility platform, but since it is a legacy aircraft Pakistan could be examining potential future successors.

Pakistan’s Ministry of Interior could also be a potential customer, it has used helicopters to support its paramilitary and internal security mandate. In fact, the interior ministry
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the nine Bell Huey II utility helicopters it was given by the U.S. in 2002. The ministry is seeking new helicopters to take on the role left by the Huey IIs. However, though the Ansat could be positioned as an alternative, Pakistan already operates other utility helicopters – such as the Leonardo AW139 and Bell 412EP – that could also fill that gap, but by extending the existing logistics and maintenance infrastructure already in place.

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[email protected]

Junior Member
Registered Member
It feels like there is a strong political will in Pakistan to go Turkish whenever possible with recent defence procurement deals.

Are the Turks offering better ToT than everyone else? Or is this a deliberate diversification move to stop the Pakistan military becoming too depending on China as a supplier for arms?
Two ships will be made in Pakistan (if the deal get approved) additionally Turkey is offering $400 million easy term loan (financial terms are under negosiation, and as per some reports Turkish President himself taking interest in this deal as Turkey in past have never offer credit for arm sales

As you said there is a deliberate effort to engage Turkey but not at the cost of China or any other country but to ensure access to an alternative market which have access to western technoly and offer their product without political or other strings
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The Pakistanis seem to be doing across the board shopping. Helicopters from Turkey the US and possibly Russia, small arms from Czech republic, armor from China, missiles from all points, fighters from China, artillery from the US and China.
 

timepass

Brigadier
DISCUSSION: CAN PAKISTAN COLLABORATE WITH TURKEY IN HELICOPTER PRODUCTION?

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Foreword: This is not a news story, but a piece for discussion. The details offered in this article are not authoritative pieces of information, but rather, opinions of the author.

In September, Turkish Aerospace Industries’ (TAI) General Manager Temel Kotil
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that TAI is in the process of developing new aircraft, among them a 10-ton general purpose helicopter to complement the T625 6-ton utility helicopter, which is expected to see its maiden test flight in September 2018. Shortly after unveiling the T625, TAI envisaged building a transport helicopter family comprising of original designs.

In parallel, the company is also engaged in the Turkish Utility Helicopter Program (TUHP), which involves the
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of the S-70i Black Hawk. Under the T-70 designation, TAI also acquired rights to export the T-70 to third-party customers. However, with a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 10 tons, TAI’s new program would basically duplicate the core dimensions, capabilities and roles of the T-70.

Though the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Pakistan Army procured a number of Leonardo AW139 utility helicopters for search-and-rescue (SAR) missions (the aviation journalist Alan Warnes
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that Pakistan selected the AW139 over the S-70), the AW139 is a 6-7 ton design. It is not a directly analogous solution for supplanting the Army’s 7+ ton Puma or the Pakistan Navy’s 9-10-ton Sea King helicopters.

It does not appear that either has a successor on the immediate roadmap. In fact, the Pakistan Navy is reinforcing its Sea King fleet with three additional flying aircraft and upgrades, which include the Leonardo SeaSpray 5000-series active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radars (
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). However, as these are aging platforms the cost-effectiveness of flying them will gradually diminish as fewer centres are available to rebuild them and newer engines and platforms become more ubiquitous.

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TAI’s 10-ton utility helicopter program can offer Pakistan an opportunity to stage a long-term solution to supplant the Puma and Sea King helicopters. The principal avenue for engaging would be through Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), which is already assuming helicopter-support work, such as a maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) site for Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 turboshaft and turboprop engines and – if
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come to fruition – production of parts for the T129 attack helicopter. It would also reinforce the Kamra Aviation City initiative, which
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Pakistan’s aircraft manufacturing and aviation services base over the long-term.

For PAC, participating in the TAI program would not be for its own sake, but to produce a solution that supports the domestic industry, is accessible for customization (in terms of subsystems and weapons), and free of end-user restrictions in terms of use and deployment. In effect, it would be the
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as that of the PAF and
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, which aims to free – or greatly minimize – Pakistan’s dependence on foreign suppliers for next-generation combat aircraft.

Flight International’s World Air Forces (2017) estimates that the Pakistan’s Army and Navy are operating 45 Puma and six Sea King helicopters (not including the additional batch being prepared by U.K.-based Vector Aerospace), respectively. Replacing them on a one-to-one basis with analogous aircraft available on the market, especially from the West, could incur a significant cost. For reference, a 2015 deal for nine UH-60M for Saudi Arabia had a price (including support) of $495 million U.S. – i.e. $55 million. The AW101 from Leonardo, which is generally marketed as a Sea King successor, has a markedly higher price. In effect, importing such solutions from the West is infeasible for Pakistan. Instead, Pakistan could aim to channel the large-scale investment for new utility or multi-role helicopters to its local economy.

In August 2016, Quwa had
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the ingredients necessary for setting up the production of helicopters in Pakistan. In this article, the Navy and Army’s respective requirements were amalgamated into a single requirement (so as to justify scale), but in reality, a standard platform is difficult to materialize.

The Navy and Army manage distinct operational realities. For example, the Navy requires airframes that have a high level of resistance to corrosion. Moreover, these may need to be equipped with relatively sophisticated self-protection suites to guard against anti-air warfare (AAW) threats, the Sea Kings are capable of firing anti-ship missiles (AShM). However, the Army has a spectrum of needs which range from relatively thinly-equipped helicopters for purely transport and logistics to versions with countermeasures suites and/or armaments for combat SAR (CSAR) and special operations forces (SOF) missions.

Ultimately, Pakistan can only engage TAI if the respective headquarters of each service arm (PAF included) agree to a platform. In effect, the core design would need to meet the needs of each arm, and the specific characteristics of one branch can add to the cost of the whole program (e.g. corrosion-resistance). It must be noted that TAI itself has the T-70 to position for defence requirements, so it is unclear if this domestic design would be steered to complex requirements. Rather, TAI itself may have the incentive to keep the design as simple as possible so as to make it attractive to commercial and cost-sensitive defence users.

There is certainly an element of risk in partnering on a new development, especially in aviation and with a new entrant in the helicopter design and development space (i.e. TAI). Moreover, PAC would enter with even less experience (if any) to bring to the table. However, Pakistan can leverage its domestic market to help generate secured scale for TAI’s helicopter, whilst partnership funding can lighten the overhead on TAI. It would be premature to say that this would be the cheaper alternative from a budget or fiscal view, but the costs incurred in the production of these helicopters would be spent in Pakistan. The helicopter program would serve as a stimulus in the economy instead of an exit of foreign currency.

This is certainly not the perfect opportunity, but it may be a valuable one provided Pakistan can identify enough overlap between TAI’s design and its domestic military – and possibly even civil services – needs. The TAI program being in its infancy (if not less developed) bodes well for the situation seeing that Pakistan itself is in no apparent rush to replace the Sea King or Puma. Besides fulfilling future requirements through expenditure in domestic industries, the program might also broach the global aviation market, thereby opening Pakistan to engage in production for customers in third-party states.

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