Nuclear Forces Thread

[BLUEJACKET]

BLUEJACKET you heard correctly. I'm happy you posted that. Those PLAN nuke boats probally are shadowed by LA class SSNs generally without detection evertime they put to sea.
Those Russian nuke boats are well know in sonar tech circles for their noise and lack of noise dampening technology. This according to a close associate of mine.

The PLAN admirals & mission planners know this and that exercise was part of their own "gunboat diplomacy", IMO.
The Russians been reducing their noise levels, but the Han isn't of russian origin. I'm sure the next class(es) will be far more advanced-

Designated the Shang class by the U.S. Navy and known as the Type 093 in the PLA Navy, it is widely believed to constitute a major technological advance over the first-generation Type 091 Han class SSN. The 2003 Pentagon report on the PLA noted, "The Type 093-class will compare to the technology of the Russian

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and will carry wire-guided and wake-homing torpedoes, as well as cruise missiles." However, the only known picture of the Type 093 shows its sail is a consistent development from the Type 091: thin, with diving planes in the U.S. fashion. If the Type 093 were to approach the acoustic performance of the Project 671RTM (Victor III), it would be superior to early SSN 688 Los Angeles class SSNs. Though not as good as the latest SSN 21 Seawolf and SSN 774 Virginia, the Type 093 would constitute a remarkable advance over the widely acknowledged poor acoustic performance of the Type 091.
Barring conjecture that the Type 093 may incorporate unknown elements of Russian fourth-generation nuclear submarines that may further improve its acoustic and combat performance, it can be expected that the PLA will aggressively pursue improvements for the Type 093 or even rapidly develop follow-on classes in the next decade. China can be expected to develop or seek Russian assistance with new large spherical sonar arrays, quieting technologies, propulsors, advanced underwater communications, vertical launch tubes for cruise missiles, and canted torpedo tubes. It is also likely that China will seek to follow the U.S. example and incorporate unmanned underwater vehicles and energy weapons on to its new SSNs.

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Having said that, I still hold that the SSBN concept in PLAN fleet is a very long way from perfection- they are bigger, require more $, and are not sound proof. The PLAN will need to protect them- if they've got what it takes then more power to them!

 

[Schumacher]

There're talks of a SSN 095 be developed, perhaps a continuation of the work from 093.
While not doubting USN can track the old Han. That Guam excursion was clearly political in nature rather than military considering on her way back, the Han 'strayed' into Japanese water while surfaced.

 

[goldenpanda]

I agree with your asessment- even with huge arsenal, it's impossible to destroy all mobile ICBMs! That's why china is better off investing in those, as her acess to open ocean is restricted, plus few other factors I pointed out in other posts.

I heard that it was detected from the time it left base, and certainly near Guam.

The Japanese claim it was first picked up as it neared territorial waters around Miyako and Ishigaki islands.

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They later drew a map that projected back to where they thought the patrol originated. The whole incident seemed like Chinese wanted to test their detection capability. SSBN's of course will stay away from MSDF areas.

I also like SSBN's because it keeps the other guy's navy busy responding to you. Not a bad way to divert his navy when you're going for a conventional attack somewhere else.

 

[goldenpanda]

BLUEJACKET you heard correctly. I'm happy you posted that. Those PLAN nuke boats probally are shadowed by LA class SSNs generally without detection evertime they put to sea.

If Chinese really wanted to know if Han is being tracked, we only need to put up a net of SSK's around the port. And I haven't heard Chinese say, everytime we put to sea we're tracked.

During hostilities SSN will be not so near to track the Han's from port.

 

[IDonT]

If Chinese really wanted to know if Han is being tracked, we only need to put up a net of SSK's around the port. And I haven't heard Chinese say, everytime we put to sea we're tracked.

During hostilities SSN will be not so near to track the Han's from port.

What makes you so sure about that? USN routinely lure in wait outside the USSR's basis in the cold war. Some were detected the majority were not, and the old USSR had vastly greater ASW capabilities the the current PLAN.

 

[bd popeye]

If Chinese really wanted to know if Han is being tracked, we only need to put up a net of SSK's around the port. And I haven't heard Chinese say, everytime we put to sea we're tracked.

I can only say that on a good authority they don't know they are being tracked in most cases. And if they were they would not anounce it. Because it would expose a weakness they do not want revieled anymore than it already has. That is poor ASW.

 

[IDonT]

stange that china does not care as much for nukes, but more for conventional forces. but if they want to be a superpower they should but an efective nuclear force.

Nuclear weapons are meant to be detterant weapons. Their job is to ensure that your country is not attack by nuke adversary. China's nuke doctrine is currently minimal deterrence. There is nothing wrong with that. It can still strike back to anyone who launches a first strike on it.

The key to superpowerhood is power projection. This involves conventional forces (stick) and economic might (carrot). A nuke will not influence events on the other side of the globe, it will only destroy those things. Superpowers can make other countries get in line with their foreign policy AND these countries believe that they are getting the best deal while doing.

 

[zachjeli]

Nuclear weapons are meant to be detterant weapons. Their job is to ensure that your country is not attack by nuke adversary. China's nuke doctrine is currently minimal deterrence. There is nothing wrong with that. It can still strike back to anyone who launches a first strike on it.

The key to superpowerhood is power projection. This involves conventional forces (stick) and economic might (carrot). A nuke will not influence events on the other side of the globe, it will only destroy those things. Superpowers can make other countries get in line with their foreign policy AND these countries believe that they are getting the best deal while doing.

yes that is true but china has no aircraft carriers or long range heavy bombers, so they don't have very much power projection like the u.s. military.