D
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The Germans made and used their own type of tank in WWI, even if the majority they used were ones captured from the Allies.
Next generation Japanese destroyers, what it means for PLAN
- Thread starter Roger604
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The Germans made and used their own type of tank in WWI, even if the majority they used were ones captured from the Allies.
They made an exact copy of the British tank (mark III?) and even that never made it to service. The tactical experience benefit was a complete zero.
beijingcar
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If we think the HQ9 and SM2 are from the same generation, then Ship Vs Ship, Kongo is better than 052C or 051C ( I know it has a different SAM) in terms AD with twice more SAMs ( anti-ship capabilities is a different story), and Japanese navy has 6-7 more years of OP experience ahead of PLAN. And we sort know what the next generation of Japanese destroyer look like, but we do not know what the next "051D" or what ever the next generation destroyer that PLAN decided to built look like. I believe this is the end of 051C and 052C production, at 2 ships for each class. How far the next class leap fog over the Tech level, we do not know.
D
Deleted member 675
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No, they made something called the A7V - it did see service in 1918 (March onwards). I'm not trying to trash your argument, just point out a factual error.
First of all the final (and I mean final) word of tanks...
Its true that Germans had their first serial production tank fielded in mid 30's but the first real "panzer division" was created as early as 1929. Heinz Guderian created the basic idea of tanks forming seperate divisions which will break trough the enemy flanks causing havoc on the rear. This was revolutionary thinking and wasen't adopted by any other army before its demostrated its effiency in WWII. Other major powers were using the tanks as infantry support as they were used in WWI.
Basicly the whole idea of tanks were recreated by the germans and thus were the first to field it.
But thats all for tanks now, if you wish to continue this discussion, lets do it in land forces forum.
But back to PLAN fleet airdefence assets. Its hardly as revolutionary as the germans in the tank sector it remainds the soviet crumbling with the seaborne aviation development. Small and shaky steps but yet steps forward.
There you go. Chinese first true fleet airdefence ships are the 052Cs which are only now being fielded in full service.
But there are other factors infavourable to PLAN. Mainly the fact that its have started to resamble a true fleet only in very recent years, and thats only in paper. Before its been merely dedicated branch of the army which just happens to float. I suggest that you read the US naval intelligense's review of PLAN structure and org. here: It gives a good insight to the PLAN. Even the basics of how to be a fleet, not to mention of its airdefence is still in childs shoe's.
No thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's fleet airdefence capacity in overall is not comparalbe to JMSDF or to other major fleets in the world. China is only fielding it's first true fleet units and hardly posseses viable and workable doctrines and traditions of how to operate a blue water navy. Among in that it's still learning to defend its fleet (note not individual ships) from aerial attacks. It can operate SAMs but its first SAMs (HQ-61) were fielded in commissioned ships in early 90's, Seccond "patch" (HQ-7) in mid and late 90's and first non-point defence, but yet still non-fleet defence SAM Sa-N-7 in early 2000. The proplem with those mentioned systems is that as they are all different orgins, so to be able to use them in combined fleet operations is very difficoult. Chinese have showed extreme difficoult to have basic naval artillery training if the ships involved are different type...and sycronized naval artillery is hardly a achivement in modern days...to be able to operate in deep of the oceans with taskforce having multible type of ships and with three to four different SAM systems IMO there it isen't realistic to assume that PLAN could master it.
Its true that Germans had their first serial production tank fielded in mid 30's but the first real "panzer division" was created as early as 1929. Heinz Guderian created the basic idea of tanks forming seperate divisions which will break trough the enemy flanks causing havoc on the rear. This was revolutionary thinking and wasen't adopted by any other army before its demostrated its effiency in WWII. Other major powers were using the tanks as infantry support as they were used in WWI.
Basicly the whole idea of tanks were recreated by the germans and thus were the first to field it.
But thats all for tanks now, if you wish to continue this discussion, lets do it in land forces forum.
But back to PLAN fleet airdefence assets. Its hardly as revolutionary as the germans in the tank sector it remainds the soviet crumbling with the seaborne aviation development. Small and shaky steps but yet steps forward.
There you go. Chinese first true fleet airdefence ships are the 052Cs which are only now being fielded in full service.
But there are other factors infavourable to PLAN. Mainly the fact that its have started to resamble a true fleet only in very recent years, and thats only in paper. Before its been merely dedicated branch of the army which just happens to float. I suggest that you read the US naval intelligense's review of PLAN structure and org. here: It gives a good insight to the PLAN. Even the basics of how to be a fleet, not to mention of its airdefence is still in childs shoe's.
No thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's fleet airdefence capacity in overall is not comparalbe to JMSDF or to other major fleets in the world. China is only fielding it's first true fleet units and hardly posseses viable and workable doctrines and traditions of how to operate a blue water navy. Among in that it's still learning to defend its fleet (note not individual ships) from aerial attacks. It can operate SAMs but its first SAMs (HQ-61) were fielded in commissioned ships in early 90's, Seccond "patch" (HQ-7) in mid and late 90's and first non-point defence, but yet still non-fleet defence SAM Sa-N-7 in early 2000. The proplem with those mentioned systems is that as they are all different orgins, so to be able to use them in combined fleet operations is very difficoult. Chinese have showed extreme difficoult to have basic naval artillery training if the ships involved are different type...and sycronized naval artillery is hardly a achivement in modern days...to be able to operate in deep of the oceans with taskforce having multible type of ships and with three to four different SAM systems IMO there it isen't realistic to assume that PLAN could master it.