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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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Jordan: How about U.S. responses to Chinese plans? One of my half-baked theories is that had
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not sounded so catchy in English, it wouldn’t have gotten nearly as much play or engender nearly as much of a response.

Emily: Or if it had been
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, cause no one knows what the 863 program is, and it’s just as explicit.

Jordan: Well “
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” sounds scary, but how about the “
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”? What are you going to do about a Two-Machines Special Project? There are no puns. There’s no op-ed headline with that phrase in it.

Emily: Trust me, I’ve tried to pitch that op-ed, and no one wanted it.

Jordan: There’s an interesting, broader thing going on: The way the Chinese system works, you have to publish a plan if you want such an enormous bureaucracy that runs a billion and a half people to try to execute it. If you want to do these things, you have to be very explicit in order to get the local- and provincial-level governments to do what you want them to do. You can’t secretly try to create your own semiconductor supply chain or what have you.

But at the same time, I feel like there was a middle ground that Xi could have done to slow-roll this, maybe to talk less aggressively, because just doing
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isn’t enough. Not many people speak Chinese, but enough speak Chinese to be able to process the kind of narrative that you and others have been writing about for years now.

Emily: If you look at the names of these plans, they mirror the growing assertiveness of China on the world stage. The decision to say, “we’re going to put out a plan called Made in China 2025” is a decision to say, “we’re going to claim this posture internationally and we’re going to be apologetic about it.” This was a gamble about the relatively closed eyes in the U.S. that maybe it was a little overconfident, but apparently not so much because China just pretended to stop using that plan’s name for a little while, and everyone bought it and thought, “We succeeded! They ended Made in China 2025,” when it wasn’t ended at all, there was just a little hush in the English language. These ambitions have been so explicit in Chinese and no one’s caught on, so there’s every reason for them to think they can get away with Made in China 2025.

I whole heartedly agree with this. The Chinese stupidly need to announce everything. Why? Because they need to prove their legitimacy ruling China? The world was going to show them respect? You do that walking the walk not talking the talk. Does the average American know what Made in China 2025 means? No, they just know it's something bad for the US and that's all they need to know and they'll being working against it because Beijing places so much on just announcing it to the world.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
I whole heartedly agree with this. The Chinese stupidly need to announce everything. Why? Because they need to prove their legitimacy ruling China? The world was going to show them respect? You do that walking the walk not talking the talk. Does the average American know what Made in China 2025 means? No, they just know it's something bad for the US and that's all they need to know and they'll being working against it because Beijing places so much on just announcing it to the world.
China is full of these slogans which are meaningless without action

Just check a normal regulation and you will see these stupid slogans.
Its like the Gov cant function without making a slogan

And also lets not forget the "Chinese Standards 2035" stupid stupid. Now the West has already started talking about it and countering this strategy
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
China is full of these slogans which are meaningless without action

Just check a normal regulation and you will see these stupid slogans.
Its like the Gov cant function without making a slogan

And also lets not forget the "Chinese Standards 2035" stupid stupid. Now the West has already started talking about it and countering this strategy
The standards thing doesn't bother me because that was the US slitting its own throat. How is the West going to stop it? It just shows again how the US wanting to decouple is all bull and just a bluff to scare China into surrendering to US demands. Instead China is going down the route where the US won't be making any money off China and also other countries that will choose China's standards so they can avoid US rules and restrictions that will always be worse. China has to do it. The US made a serious miscalculation that China was going to blink first counting on their racist belief that Chinese need them in their lives.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
How is the West going to stop it?
Obviously by combining strategies with the EU. The primary reason why China has advanced in their international standards is because the US and the EU are split and China manages to win by combining its companies when time comes to vote for standards

Now because of this "Chinese Standards 2035" slogan the US is talking about doing the same as Chine does, uniting its companies (still fat to the future though) and then Biden can strike a deal with the EU on this

This is why all these slogans are dangerous and damaging for China
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Obviously by combining strategies with the EU. The primary reason why China has advanced in their international standards is because the US and the EU are split and China manages to win by combining its companies when time comes to vote for standards

Now because of this "Chinese Standards 2035" slogan the US is talking about doing the same as Chine does, uniting its companies (still fat to the future though) and then Biden can strike a deal with the EU on this

This is why all these slogans are dangerous and damaging for China
The only way the West is going to stop it is by ending their trade economic and technology war with China or start a military war and hope they win and force China to stick by their standard. If they're willing to do that, then they can go straight to a military war and not their economic and technology trade war. Decoupling means no connection. China has no reason to stay with the Western standard. The West wants China to stick to its standard so they can charge China using it standard because they own it. Now they'll have to pay China if they want to sell their products that will have to use a Chinese standard to work in China. They forced this to happen so it's their fault and they can't stop it without a war.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
The standards thing doesn't bother me because that was the US slitting its own throat. How is the West going to stop it? It just shows again how the US wanting to decouple is all bull and just a bluff to scare China into surrendering to US demands. Instead China is going down the route where the US won't be making any money off China and also other countries that will choose China's standards so they can avoid US rules and restrictions that will always be worse. China has to do it. The US made a serious miscalculation that China was going to blink first counting on their racist belief that Chinese need them in their lives.
@AssassinsMace Sir, I really like your analogy, China can decouple and still grow , while the US can't cause there is no another China to replaced the original. The West hope India is the one to replaced it, hyping its potential and letting burn on the process...lol. All this threats are all talk cause if they wanted to punish China they should done it forcefully not halfheartedly, You're right the bluff had been called and there is no turning back.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
@AssassinsMace Sir, I really like your analogy, China can decouple and still grow , while the US can't cause there is no another China to replaced the original. The West hope India is the one to replaced it, hyping its potential and letting burn on the process...lol. All this threats are all talk cause if they wanted to punish China they should done it forcefully not halfheartedly, You're right the bluff had been called and there is no turning back.
Yes, China has no choice and China is willing and capable of macro changes the West has a hard time doing. That's why the side that calls for decoupling is embarrassing themselves now peeing in their skirts that China is going its own way. I wrote about this before where over a decade ago China was going to create its own cell phone standard and the West went ballistic because then the Western cellphone makers would have spend more money than they had to to have their handsets work on the Chinese system. They complained to the WTO to stop it. That's the flaw of a democracy. The people elected back then that knew China was willing to break the mold by going by its own standard aren't the same people today who rather believe China wants everything Western around them to be so arrogant. Now they can't complain since they're the ones that want decoupling.
 
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Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
China is full of these slogans which are meaningless without action

Just check a normal regulation and you will see these stupid slogans.
Its like the Gov cant function without making a slogan

And also lets not forget the "Chinese Standards 2035" stupid stupid. Now the West has already started talking about it and countering this strategy
Unlike what you claimed, the Chinese have already succeeded in many areas that they started research on by saying these slogans.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
The only way the West is going to stop it is by ending their trade economic and technology war with China or start a military war and hope they win and force China to stick by their standard. If they're willing to do that, then they can go straight to a military war and not their economic and technology trade war. Decoupling means no connection. China has no reason to stay with the Western standard. The West wants China to stick to its standard so they can charge China using it standard because they own it. Now they'll have to pay China if they want to sell their products that will have to use a Chinese standard to work in China. They forced this to happen so it's their fault and they can't stop it without a war.
But what if they managed to convince a lot of the third world to use their standards. In another thread I read how the West are starting to make a play for Africa first through apologizing for their misdeeds. Germany has offered a billion dollars to Namibia to develop infrastructure no doubt to European standards. France Britain Portugal could also follow suit.
 
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