News on China's scientific and technological development.

NiuBiDaRen

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
In4ser said:
I'm not disagreeing with you but seem to miss the wording 'revolutionary.' By that, I mean a paradigm shift in how things are done. For example, implementing Mass Industrialization or created the Internet where nothing like it has existed before. As I mentioned earlier, my view is that China's approach is evolutionary.
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Come on. The Internet first started as an intranet, which was a logical evolutionary step for military communications after radio.

Song dynasty had proto-industrialization which unfortunately was extinguished by the Mongol conquests.

"The Southern Song came closer to initiating an industrial revolution than any other premodern state".

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After Japan got its industrialization going, they invented stuff like CDs, pocket calculators, laptops, microprocessors, androids, bullet trains etc. Pretty revolutionary.

Let's not resort to racist tropes, please. It's pretty darn annoying when people say things like Westerners = revolutionary, Asians = evolutionary.

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In4ser

In4ser

Junior Member
While the Song Dynasty was very advanced for its time but we aren't comparing Medieval Europe to it. The ideas and philosophies we are debating about today were not invented until very recently. Had Europe adopted modern political and socioeconomic theories and policies back during the 1100s, they would undoubtedly be in a much stronger position vis vie Song Dynasty.

I'm not saying it's impossible for China to revolutionary things, I'm saying that creative destruction is often necessary for new ideas and viewpoints. There are always trade-offs for adopting specific policies or viewpoints. Being bigger and taller means you are less likely quick and nimble. You cannot be everything at once.

Regarding change, it is much harder to implement it when you have special interests or outdated mindsets impeding you. That's why the Cultural Revolution was a good thing because traditional superstitions and backward practices were hindering the modernization of China.

With regard to Japan, they were able to be more revolutionary in the 1970s to 1990s because they lacked established industry titans that exist today to domineer over small and medium enterprises and create high barriers of entry. Once Sony, Toyota, and other Keireitsus became entrenched, their corporate culture regarding protocol and risk aversion gradually suffocated the disruption and risk-taking spirit within the Japanese business community.
 
NiuBiDaRen

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
In4ser said:
While the Song Dynasty was very advanced for its time but we aren't comparing Medieval Europe to it. The ideas and philosophies we are debating about today were not invented until very recently. Had Europe adopted modern political and socioeconomic theories and policies back during the 1100s, they would undoubtedly be in a much stronger position vis vie Song Dynasty.

I'm not saying it's impossible for China to revolutionary things, I'm saying that creative destruction is often necessary for new ideas and viewpoints. There are always trade-offs for adopting specific policies or viewpoints. Being bigger and taller means you are less likely quick and nimble. You cannot be everything at once.

Regarding change, it is much harder to implement it when you have special interests or outdated mindsets impeding you. That's why the Cultural Revolution was a good thing because traditional superstitions and backward practices were hindering the modernization of China.

With regard to Japan, they were able to be more revolutionary in the 1970s to 1990s because they lacked established industry titans that exist today to domineer over small and medium enterprises and create high barriers of entry. Once Sony, Toyota, and other Keireitsus became entrenched, their corporate culture regarding protocol and risk aversion gradually suffocated the disruption and risk-taking spirit within the Japanese business community.
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Hypotheticals are frowned upon. You might as well say Had China adopted modern industrial policies back during the 1800s, they would undoubtedly be in a much stronger position vis a vis Europe.

Anyway I hate this cultural chauvinism. I'm not going to talk any more about who is more revolutionary or evolutionary since it always jumps into racism.
 
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In4ser

In4ser

Junior Member
Crang said:
Hypotheticals are frowned upon. You might as well say Had China adopted modern industrial policies back during the 1800s, they would undoubtedly be in a much stronger position vis a vis Europe.

Anyway I hate this cultural chauvinism. I'm not going to talk any more about who is more revolutionary or evolutionary since it always jump into racism.
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LOL What? My explicit point is nether approach is better. You are just butthurt because I'm not portraying China mimicking the West's success and victories on a 1 to 1 level because it's taking a different route in development. Your argument approaches Indian assumptions of its own inevitable Superpowa status (b/c China did it) without understanding the actual reasoning and basis for China's successful policies and actions.

BTW the modern policy and ideas I was are talking about is the idea of creative destruction and the need to question convention norms and approaches. The problem with Pre-Enlightenment Europe and Imperial China was its inability willing to recognize its own ignorance. It didn't know what it didn't know and therefore could not ask questions about how things work or why because they assumed they already knew all the answers from the Church or with China from the 'Traditional Wisdom' of elders.
 
NiuBiDaRen

NiuBiDaRen

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Registered Member
In4ser said:
LOL What? My explicit point is nether approach is better. You are just butthurt because I'm not portraying China mimicking the West's success and victories on a 1 to 1 level because it's taking a different route in development. Your argument approaches Indian assuming inevitable Superpowa status b/c China did it without understanding the actual reasoning and basis for China's successful policies and actions.

BTW the modern policy was are talking about is the idea of creative destruction and the need to question convention norms and approaches. The problem with Pre-Enlightment Europe and Imperial China was its inability willing to recognize its own ignorance. It didn't know what it didn't know and therefore could not ask questions about how things work or why because they assumed they already knew all the answers from the Church or with China from the 'Traditional Wisdom' of elders.
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Once again no need to personally attack me for engaging in a discussion with you. Also thank you for assuming that I don't know certain things and making the mistake of not separating my sentience from yours.

We have had intellectuals in Imperial China with the curiosity and imperative to question things. The intellectual Shen Kuo observed lightning and purported as to its properties. And I can give you more examples. However, China never formalized the scientific system for a long period after Song collapsed from the Mongols. After Song dynasty, China began a period of continual literary inquisition.
 
NiuBiDaRen

NiuBiDaRen

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Registered Member
Petrolicious88 said:
Asians are prob much more racist than most white Americans, loll.
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I think it's a bit of a trope that Asians are more racist than white people. There are many different kinds of racism, including violent racism, socially discriminatory racism etc. All things considered, I don't think the statement is true.
Nobonita Barua said:
wasnt making statement, its my observation. But pretty sure i'm close ;)
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A bit of correlation vs causation here. I'm just trying to argue against some of the preconceived notions here. Especially @In4ser who made some very questionable statements about culture and race that are reductionist.
 
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localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
We don’t want to diminish the hard work and other resources that Chinese put into education.

The whole family makes sacrifices for the kid’s education.


We don’t need to prove that we’re naturally smarter, I’d prefer that we didn’t. Useless to be proud of something you’re born with. Be proud of difficulties that you overcome in life.
 
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