News on China's scientific and technological development.

Temstar said:

I know and I'm very proud of that fact. I knew all the way back in the days of Japanese boycott that it doesn't solve anything.

It's like earlier in the year when Indians were smashing Chinese TV and goods and stuff, I saw those scenes and was like "oh wow, we were there a few decades ago, and now being on the opposite end it's so clear now how useless of a gesture that was."

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Hi Temstar,

I think its how the Govt handle itself, you see the calm, restrain and confidence it show to its people. There are no chest beating of retaliation and threats. That is a sign of a cultured and mature society and must be emulated by all Chinese. The Confucian trait against the exceptionalism individualism of the west.

localizer said:

As long as there's no war, China can win in the end in the tech race.

We should all do our part as overseas Chinese in protecting the livelihood of the Chinese people.

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If there was a war, nobody would win ... in fact , the end of the world we know of

MrCrazyBoyRavi said:

So oracle won the tiktok bid.

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Not so fast, the sell might not happen

w/r ARM sale to Nvidia, I expect to see the Chinese anti-trust agency attempt to block the transfer, even though the IP will still be UK registered, the entity list would apply to Nvidia and its subsidiaries, in this case, ARM, which would essentially mean the end of several semiconductor design labs, such as Alibaba or HiSilicon (they can still design, they just can't fab).

If this does go through, expect increase adoption of RISC-V and MIPS, where MIPS is essentially owned by a Chinese company at this point and RISC-V is an open source ISA, and both ISAs have demonstrated that they are more than capable of superseding ARM, given enough research goes into it (MIPS currently powers multiple Chinese supercomputers and RISC-V already used in SBCs and IOT devices). On top of this, Zhaoxin formed out of a JV with VIA, which also grants them a license to x86_64, with their most recent CPUs demonstrating adequate performance for office use.

Remember this is from CNBC


China wants its semiconductor industry to catch up with the U.S. — but that won't be easy
PUBLISHED SUN, SEP 13 2020 10:00 PM EDT
UPDATED SUN, SEP 13 2020 10:57 PM EDT

Arjun Kharpal
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KEY POINTS

• China has been trying to ramp up its domestic semiconductor industry as the U.S. increases the pressure on the country's technology giants.
• China faces a situation where its companies' access to important components, as well as its domestic chipmakers' ability to procure technology to make those semiconductors, could be hampered by U.S. sanctions.
• One factor potentially in China's favor is that it has a very big market, in terms of both a large population and a vast number of devices.

machupicu said:

Remember this is from CNBC


China wants its semiconductor industry to catch up with the U.S. — but that won't be easy
PUBLISHED SUN, SEP 13 2020 10:00 PM EDT
UPDATED SUN, SEP 13 2020 10:57 PM EDT

Arjun Kharpal
SHARE
KEY POINTS

• China has been trying to ramp up its domestic semiconductor industry as the U.S. increases the pressure on the country's technology giants.
• China faces a situation where its companies' access to important components, as well as its domestic chipmakers' ability to procure technology to make those semiconductors, could be hampered by U.S. sanctions.
• One factor potentially in China's favor is that it has a very big market, in terms of both a large population and a vast number of devices.

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I find the USA ability to sanction and do all these dirty dealings to get at China to be utterly annoying. At times like this, it honestly would be good if the San Andreas fault and yellow stone volcano go off at the same time to be honest, if only because that is the one thing that the USA cannot sanction

ansy1968 said:

Hi WTAN,

Newbie question, It can be downsize to 14nm, 7nm to 5nm? So we can confidently say that 45nm to 28nm all locally produce equipment end of this year?, 2021 14nm , 2022 7nm? 2025 optimistic 5nm?

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Yes.....what you wrote is right.
I think some Westerners will be shocked when they see what will happen with Chinese FABs next year.

There is a lot of misinformation about silicon manufacturing on this thread. The fact of the matter is that it will be very hard for Chinese fabs (or rather fab, singular) to move to anywhere smaller than their current node. The single greatest monopoly in the silicon manufacturing industry is ASML, which currently makes the only competitive EUV lithographic machine in the world. The Dutch government have withheld issuing export licenses to China, which means that there is no way for SMIC to achieve a node shrink beyond a certain limit.

Shanghai Microelectronics have only achieved a 22nm lithographic machine, and very recently too. All other machines are basically made by US companies such as Lam research.

SMIC will likely survive well due to many factors?


A “cold turkey” cut off could be very ugly

If the US government decided to cut off SMIC cold turkey, things could get very ugly, very quickly. Much like Jinhua we would have to assume that the government would also cut off support of existing installed equipment as well, which would cut off recurring revenue as well.

At Jinhua, US companies employees left literally in a day and were on the next plane out leaving the fab in a lurch and killing it in 24 hours.

Without spare parts, maintenance and upgrades SMIC would have serious problems continuing to function.

So much as with ZTE, Jinhua and Huawei, denying access to US technology could prove a death sentence for SMIC