News on China's scientific and technological development.

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
People really need to get rid of that idea Huawei = 100% China smartphones.

What about Xiaomi? Oppo? ZTE? Meizu? Vivo? RealMe?

People in the US should be familiar with this brand: OnePlus.

Xiaomi is number one in India. Some of its apps have been recently banned in India including its browser but not Xiaomi and their phones, so Xiaomi has to substitute the browser and other apps.

All these companies are eager to take up the vaccuum left by Huawei. ZTE is not barred from using American tech on its smartphones, so it can get Google, Qualcomm, Corning and all that in its smartphones. Its banned on getting American tech for its base stations, however. Figure that out.

Oddly, Huawei isn't banned from using Microsoft, buying nVidia, Intel and AMD chipsets to build PCs and notebooks.

What's really sad about this Huawei ban smartphone thing is that their smartphones are really really really good. I owned a Huawei smartphone, dual sim, used it internationally. IMO, their hardware is better than both Apple and Samsung. In terms of performance, price and value, Xiaomi and Oppo are nipping at Huawei's heels. Oddly, Oppo, Vivo, Realme and OnePlus are all brands under one umbrella company, and this company, called BBK, if all its subsidiaries are added, would be the number one smartphone maker in the world. I have been testing some Xiaomi and Oppo phones myself, quite impressed with both brands.

These other handset makers could be targets in the future, however. That is why, even as they chase market share within the American software ecosystem, they should be working with Huawei on its alternative software ecosystem and chip manufacture research. They should also be working with their chip suppliers to reduce reliance on American technology.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
WTAN, Skywatcher and Superdog need your opinion regarding this article.

from cnTechPost

Chinese company Han's Laser says it has received orders for its in-process lithography machine
2020-08-10 18:37:13 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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Chinese company Han's Laser says it has received orders for its in-process lithography machine-cnTechPost

Han's Laser Technology, a Chinese-based company principally engaged in manufacturing of laser and automatic auxiliary equipment, said in response to investor questions today that the lithography machine it is developing has received a small number of orders.

The company said that the resolution of its lithography machine project under development is 3-5 μm (3,000-5,000 nm), focusing on applications such as discrete devices and LEDs.

High-end chip manufacturing photolithography machine has been the Netherlands ASML company monopoly that are priced at tens of billions of dollars. In contrast, China's semiconductor industry started late, and the gap between the lithography technology and ASML is very large.
In the Chinese market, Hefei-based Advantools Semiconductor and Wuxi Yinghuan Semiconductor both have the ability to mass-produce 200 nm lithography machines. The 90 nm lithography machine produced by the Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment is currently the lithography machine with highest technology in China.
With Han's Laser's in-process lithography project moving forward, it is expected to provide a little boost to China's lithography research and development moving forward.


In the meantime, at an event last week, Huawei Consumer Business CEO Richard Yu said Huawei will be rooted in all aspects, breaking through basic research and precision manufacturing in physics and materials science in semiconductors.






In terminal devices, Huawei is investing heavily in materials and core technologies to achieve a close linkage between new materials and new processes, breaking through bottlenecks that constrain innovation.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hi WTAN, need your commend regarding this development.

from antonius123(pakistan defense forum) additional info on Huawei plan for producing lithography machines.

Is Huawei building its lithography machines?

2020-07-26
|ChinaTech
[IMG]

Huawei is hiring many lithography engineers recently. Does Huawei want to develop its own lithography machine in China?

Recently, the news about Huawei's development of a lithography machine has been posted on Weibo and WeChat Moments. The source of the news is that Huawei is recruiting lithography machine technicians on a large scale, requiring full-time work in Songshan Lake, Dongguan.

[IMG]


According to reports, many domestic manufacturers have received inquiries for ancillary products from Huawei.

There are even claims that a large number of core personnel within Huawei have been transferred to the lithography machine department. In Huawei’s newly established lithography machine department, people work 24 hours a day, eat and live in the company. It is also expected to mention that its 5NM lithography machine will be put into mass production within two years.
In addition, another source said that Huawei had applied for a patent on lithography equipment as early as 4 years ago.

According to the Chinese patent publication website epub.sipo.gov.cn, the patent was applied for at the Chinese Patent Office on September 9, 2016. The applicant is Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. and the inventor is
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. He used to work for Huawei and now works as a senior engineer at Groupe SII in France.

[IMG]


Huawei lithography machine patent (in Chinese)

In other words, Huawei began research and development of the lithography machine industry as early as 4 years ago.

Huawei stated in the patent document that the implementation of the present invention provides a lithography equipment and a lithography system, which can avoid translation of the substrate by using an optical switch and at least two photonic devices to form an interference pattern on the surface of the substrate. This improves the efficiency of photolithography processing and the accuracy of interference patterns.


Why Huawei will build its own lithography machine?

In this regard, the China Semiconductor Forum (211ic.com) issued a statement that it is logical for Huawei to enter the lithography machine under the current situation. Huawei HiSilicon currently has no design capabilities, but cannot produce chips.

[IMG]


Before Huawei's president Ren Zhengfei had a chip plan to prevent it from being restricted, and now the chip foundry production has become a weakness that Huawei has been criticized by the United States. Huawei therefore needs to lay out a complete industrial chain like Samsung.
However, the article believes that, in theory, it is basically impossible for Huawei to produce a 5NM lithography machine within two years.
First, the lithography machine is not something that anyone can do. Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment, jointly led by the Shanghai Municipal Government and state-level departments, achieved 96nm after more than ten years of hard work.
SMIC has been established for 20 years, but is only now familiar with the 14nm process. But this is already a very difficult achievement. It is now rumored that Huawei wants to build 5NM in two years, which is a bit unlikely.
Second, Huawei recruits a "lithography process engineer", which belongs to a research and development position, that is, Huawei sends engineers to the foundry to supervise and guide the process manufacturing. If Huawei intends to build its own lithography machine, the recruitment position should be "lithography equipment engineer".


Why Huawei can build its own lithography machine?
However, some people believe that if Huawei builds its own chip factory, the probability of success in its lithography machine still exists.

First, Huawei has a lot of cash flow support.
Second, although Huawei could not produce chips or lithography machines before, it has mastered the relevant technical principles and technical reserves.
Third, if Huawei really wants to produce lithography machines, the Chinese government will definitely support it. Therefore, although it seems a bit impossible for 5NM lithography machines to be put into mass production within 2 years, at least the money and talents are in place. With the strong support of the country, it may come true one day in the future.

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Huawei currently has a long term plan to become like Samsung, making their own Chips in their own Fabs.

According to Sources they are constructing their own FAB in Dongguan Guangdong Province. The hiring of Lithography Engineers is mainly to set up the FAB and to develop their own FINFET Chip Technology. They are awaiting the arrival of the SMEE 22/28nm Litho Equipment and other locally made Semiconductor Equipment.

The Patent they filed 4 yrs ago is for a Diffractive Lens Array Maskless Lithography Machine. This type of machine cannot really mass produce Chips, unless Huawei has found a way to overcome this problem. Huawei may still try to develop this machine as they see some potential. If it works it will be a big breakthrough for Huawei.

In fact Huawei should team up with Changchun Institute and SMEE to develop a EUV Machine as rapidly as possible.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Huawei currently has a long term plan to become like Samsung, making their own Chips in their own Fabs.

According to Sources they are constructing their own FAB in Dongguan Guangdong Province. The hiring of Lithography Engineers is mainly to set up the FAB and to develop their own FINFET Chip Technology. They are awaiting the arrival of the SMEE 22/28nm Litho Equipment and other locally made Semiconductor Equipment.

The Patent they filed 4 yrs ago is for a Diffractive Lens Array Maskless Lithography Machine. This type of machine cannot really mass produce Chips, unless Huawei has found a way to overcome this problem. Huawei may still try to develop this machine as they see some potential. If it works it will be a big breakthrough for Huawei.

In fact Huawei should team up with Changchun Institute and SMEE to develop a EUV Machine as rapidly as possible.
Hi WTAN,

Thanks for your prompt reply, need your opinion on my previous post below, and if Huawei is making their own Chips in their own Fabs, what about SMIC ? will their partnership end?

its occur to me the discussion we had with WTAN, SKYWATCHER , SUPERDOG and others about the SMEE EUV lithography machine that will be online in 2022. Is Huawei part of these collaboration? It matches the timeline of Huawei 5nm target date and SMEE EUV delivery?
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Huawei currently has a long term plan to become like Samsung, making their own Chips in their own Fabs.

According to Sources they are constructing their own FAB in Dongguan Guangdong Province. The hiring of Lithography Engineers is mainly to set up the FAB and to develop their own FINFET Chip Technology. They are awaiting the arrival of the SMEE 22/28nm Litho Equipment and other locally made Semiconductor Equipment.

The Patent they filed 4 yrs ago is for a Diffractive Lens Array Maskless Lithography Machine. This type of machine cannot really mass produce Chips, unless Huawei has found a way to overcome this problem. Huawei may still try to develop this machine as they see some potential. If it works it will be a big breakthrough for Huawei.

In fact Huawei should team up with Changchun Institute and SMEE to develop a EUV Machine as rapidly as possible.
Hi WTAN,

After rereading this thread and your explanation,its all become clear to me that the 5nm Huawei project is tied to using the SMEE 22/28 DUV LITHO , not on the projected SMEE EUV. As you stated, the new NIKON DUV is capable of producing 5nm and both the new SMEE DUV is comparable. And now I might say that the 2 year Huawei 5nm dateline may not be a crazy idea at all.

I really need to give you thanks for the opportunity to think things through with your input.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
This map really shows the problem with the Chinese tech situation.

As you can see Google search is the lingua franca, it dominates the market in North & South America, South Asia & Europe & has a presence in other regions as well. Combined, it dwarfs China in both population and GDP/market size. Google has
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.

Baidu's advantage as you said is language, but because it can rely on this, the quality isn't as good. That's not good for China if its people have to choose between language and quality, and it will degrade China's economy in the long term.

That is why China really needs an international search offering. One or more Chinese companies need to learn to start competing with Google in some third party markets, even if their market share is very low. European countries have such companies such as Ecosia (Germany), Qwant (France), Mojeek (UK), Swisscows (Switzerland), and Givero (Denmark). The difference between these offerings, as small as they are, and sites like Baidu and Yandex is that they can be searched in English. They all generally advertise themselves as tracking-free. This may be necessary to gain a competitive advantage on Google, because consumers need a reason why to use your search.

The international search market can't be ceded to Google because the massive amounts of revenue controlling search brings in. By controlling search you not only become the world's information depository for all consumers, but the gatekeeper for all retailers. You become the information middleman between the consumer and seller. Any country that wants to compete with the US in economic strength has to compete here.

Ideally what would happen is that a Google competitor or competitior(s), hopefully one or more of which is Chinese, that accepts lower margins but offers greater privacy rights & control over your data will gain traction as consumers gain more awareness of how their data is being taken advantage of. This will for Google to follow suit and reduce profit margins in the industry.

It will also help if antitrust action is brought on Google in multiple jurisdictions to get regulatory action brought against them. NO country outside the US benefits from the Google hegemony. India doesn't benefit when the data of its consumers goes to a foreign country to be monetized either. It's not just the US vs. China but the US vs. the world.
Search is an outmoded paradigm. Baidu and Google is the web service model of the past. There’s a reason why Baidu isn’t better. There’s no consumer demand for it to be because does their content and product discovery through other models that they prefer.
 
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