News on China's scientific and technological development.

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nokia was not replaced from its dominance in feature phones. No one was able to beat Nokia by making a better feature phone, people stopped buying feature phones and started buying smartphones a completely new product category. By comparison, Windows has not been replaced in PC's because no one has been able to replace a PC. The same thing with printers for example, where HP is dominant and no one can replace them. Same thing in cars, where the same car companies continue to dominate.

Tik Tok did not replace Facebook by the way, they created a new product with a new purpose. The original function of Facebook which is being in touch with friends or messaging or the timeline, they have not been replaced by another product. Just because tik tok is popular, doesn't mean it has beaten Facebook.

Every technology has a fast growth period and then stagnation. We have not been able to replace cars with something better. We have not been able to replace the laptop with something better. I doubt we will be able to replace the smartphone with something else. Wearable tech, VR they all tried and failed because they do not provide enough benefit.


In fact the overall pace of computer technology is slowly becoming stagnant. The benefit we got in terms efficiency and lifestyle changes was much higher when PC first came along and then internet came along. Compare that with the benefits we got from the smartphone? Minuscule. So, the guarantee that technology will keep getting better and better is not true. The benefits that will come will become smaller and smaller. And most people will not find it beneficial to move to the new product category.


Mobile payments have not taken off in the US and will probably never take off. Cause the benefit of mobile payments is miniscule compared to using a credit card. It took off in China because they did not even have credit cards in wide adoption.

So, the notion that google services will be replaced by something far better is not guaranteed. Maybe Gmail is best form of e-mail ever and no company can become better enough to actually make people replace it. Email has not been replaced by messaging apps like Whatsapp. They have their own niche category now. Email is now used for formal communication.


So there is no guarantee Chinese companies can ever beat Google. Sure they will create new product categories. But there is no guarantee those categories will even be useful enough to replace older tech wholesale.


The biggest China has is its lower GDP per capita. Its much cheaper to hire engineers in China vs US. So, that means Chinese companies can make their products cheaper or come up with a better product by using more engineers. This advantage will slowly accumulate and Chinese companies will beat Americans eventually. But it will take many many years of slow and steady accumulation. It will take 30-40 years or even longer. This is a battle of attrition, not a battle that can be won by outflanking.
 

BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nokia was not replaced from its dominance in feature phones. No one was able to beat Nokia by making a better feature phone, people stopped buying feature phones and started buying smartphones a completely new product category. By comparison, Windows has not been replaced in PC's because no one has been able to replace a PC. The same thing with printers for example, where HP is dominant and no one can replace them. Same thing in cars, where the same car companies continue to dominate.

Tik Tok did not replace Facebook by the way, they created a new product with a new purpose. The original function of Facebook which is being in touch with friends or messaging or the timeline, they have not been replaced by another product. Just because tik tok is popular, doesn't mean it has beaten Facebook.

Every technology has a fast growth period and then stagnation. We have not been able to replace cars with something better. We have not been able to replace the laptop with something better. I doubt we will be able to replace the smartphone with something else. Wearable tech, VR they all tried and failed because they do not provide enough benefit.


In fact the overall pace of computer technology is slowly becoming stagnant. The benefit we got in terms efficiency and lifestyle changes was much higher when PC first came along and then internet came along. Compare that with the benefits we got from the smartphone? Minuscule. So, the guarantee that technology will keep getting better and better is not true. The benefits that will come will become smaller and smaller. And most people will not find it beneficial to move to the new product category.


Mobile payments have not taken off in the US and will probably never take off. Cause the benefit of mobile payments is miniscule compared to using a credit card. It took off in China because they did not even have credit cards in wide adoption.

So, the notion that google services will be replaced by something far better is not guaranteed. Maybe Gmail is best form of e-mail ever and no company can become better enough to actually make people replace it. Email has not been replaced by messaging apps like Whatsapp. They have their own niche category now. Email is now used for formal communication.


So there is no guarantee Chinese companies can ever beat Google. Sure they will create new product categories. But there is no guarantee those categories will even be useful enough to replace older tech wholesale.


The biggest China has is its lower GDP per capita. Its much cheaper to hire engineers in China vs US. So, that means Chinese companies can make their products cheaper or come up with a better product by using more engineers. This advantage will slowly accumulate and Chinese companies will beat Americans eventually. But it will take many many years of slow and steady accumulation. It will take 30-40 years or even longer. This is a battle of attrition, not a battle that can be won by outflanking.

So more precisely: it is about eclipse not replace...

Personal computers (PC) never "replaced" mainframes, we still have "mainframes" today, but in terms of sales, units, marketshare, etc PC has proliferated and eclipse that of sales /units of mainframes...

Likewise, smartphone doesn't really replace the PC, but in terms of sales, marketshare, adoption, smartphones quickly have eclipsed that of desktop computing, indeed many in the third world have a smartphone and will never have or need a desktop tower computer or personal computer... these are markets that the smartphone has eclipse that the desktop has no hope of ever capturing...

Google never competed head on with Microsoft by coming out with its own version of Windows for the Desktop OS, but Android for IoT has entirely eclipsed Windows... ARM doesn't compete with Intel, but ARM is now eclipsed the x86 arch... (indeed Apple is switching to ARM and Huawei desktops are ARM based now not Intel)

It is hard to predict which things and new technologies and entire new developments will create innovative new areas that will eclipse the current status quo of Google Play and the Gmail and the current state of Western lead software platforms and ecosystems that will make it entirely redundant and irrelevant but for this exact same reason that is why your prediction of it needing to take 40 years for China to catch up is entirely irrelevant in and of itself... Nothing ever replaced the rolodex, it just slowly became irrelevant... and why would I need an expensive Rolex when I can get a huawei watch?

Take the example of cars... 20 years ago people said China will never catch up to the likes of Germany in terms of car production and quality... Germany had mastered the state of the art when it came to Internal Combustion Engine... yet EV/AI (both of which China has the lead) pulls the rug underneath the feet now... given the pattern of history, it is almost certain that something will come along that will help China eclipse the current challenges (and China does not need to fully replace Gmail/GooglePlay/etc) and this will happen way before 40 years...
 
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KYli

Brigadier
AFAIK, huawei (and possibly ZTE. Is it under embargo too?) was only barred from american tech because it produces communications infrastruture, which is a vital asset in any country. Thats why it has become a special target for the US government for a long time now. I remember in 2012 that the US government was already talking about how huawei and ZTE could pose a threat to US security.

However, firms like xiaomi, that only produce phones, should be safe from that.

I don't think Xiaomi is totally safe. If Xiaomi ever threatened Apple, then you might see more restrictions or sanctions from the US.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Countries like India and China invested heavily in software due to low barriers to entry.

All you need is a laptop and the internet and you can start writing software.

China is now at the point where it can afford to invest in competitive hardware.


Just like how China pooled together its labor and spirit into building the roads, rail, high rise, and other infrastructure, China can start rallying resource towards truly high tech stuff.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Countries like India and China invested heavily in software due to low barriers to entry.

All you need is a laptop and the internet and you can start writing software.

China is now at the point where it can afford to invest in competitive hardware.


Just like how China pooled together its labor and spirit into building the roads, rail, high rise, and other infrastructure, China can start rallying resource towards truly high tech stuff.
Hi localizer,

Yes, software is the easily part but the most essential, here you can see the American way of thinking, controlling the APPS and software is where the money are. They leave the capital/labor intensive hardware sector to the Asian (hard work and less profit), see the complacent attitude and quick money scheme they are accustomed to.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Hi localizer,

Yes, software is the easily part but the most essential, here you can see the American way of thinking, controlling the APPS and software is where the money are. They leave the capital/labor intensive hardware sector to the Asian (hard work and less profit), see the complacent attitude and quick money scheme they are accustomed to.


Chinese and Indians are huge part of Silicon valley. The Chinese are doing both the software and hardware work. The white man and indians do the management and take the credit.

I've been working in high tech for over a decade now. It is very apparent that Chinese are the work horse, yet we get treated the worst and Indians take all our credit to present to the white man who gets to present Chinese results to the world.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Xiaomi will never be a Huawei , with this kind of defeatist attitude , it will just be a assembler of cheap cellphone not an innovator of new product.

from cnTechPost

Xiaomi's Lei Jun says MIX Alpha is too difficult to mass-produce and has been abandoned
2020-08-09 11:29:39 GMT+8 | cnTechPost
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Xiaomi's Lei Jun says MIX Alpha is too difficult to mass-produce and has been abandoned-cnTechPost

Mass production for the Xiaomi MIX Alpha is too difficult and the project has been abandoned, Xiaomi founder Lei Jun said today on
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Xiaomi's Lei Jun says MIX Alpha is too difficult to mass-produce and has been abandoned-cnTechPost


Xiaomi released the 5G era concept phone MIX Alpha on September 24, 2019. The price is 19,999 yuan ($2890). It was originally planned to hit the market at the end of December 2019.
The device has 180.6% screen-to-body ratio surround screen, a futuristic design that shocked the world.
Xiaomi's Lei Jun says MIX Alpha is too difficult to mass-produce and has been abandoned-cnTechPost



It supports pressure-sensitive controls on the sides, and the screen features a dual-fold flexible screen design with new screen sound technology and on-screen fingerprint technology.
It also comes with AI as well as multi-sensor anti-false-touch technology that supports smart scene recognition and can intelligently identify information such as high speed trains and flights.


Lei Jun has said that the MIX Alpha began development 2 years ago and invested 1,000 engineers before and after, with a total investment of 500 million yuan.


In January, Cui Baoqiu, chairman of the Xiaomi Technical Committee, said Xiaomi has mass production capabilities for the MIX Alpha, but mass production is not determined solely by R&D, but also needs to be coordinated with its virous department.


Xiaomi held a meeting in Beijing today and announced that the Xiaomi MIX Alpha R&D team won the Xiaomi Annual Technology Award 2019 with a prize of US $1 million.
 
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