News on China's scientific and technological development.

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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
BMEWS said:
How much longer the US plans to play the Human RIghts Card when they are now randomly carting citizens away into unmarked federal govenrnment vans without due process?
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Wait until the civil unrest grows and then it’s all over the news. Then let’s see if they keep on yapping about it and instead of China’s situation that is very hard to actually prove, the one in the USA is going to be very hard to prove otherwise. Oh and if things fully break down and the virus goes full parabolic, everyone will sanction the USA for everyone’s safety since the USA clearly doesn’t give a fuck about the virus anymore
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
Umm wow.

Looks like SMIC's N+2 will beat Intel, if the former comes out in late 2021 as planned.

And mind you, Intel has EUV since about 2017 with the delivery of the NXE3350B.

Intel's 7nm is Broken, Company Announces Delay Until 2022, 2023
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an hour ago
From bad to worse


Intel announced today in its Q2 2020 earnings release that it has now delayed the rollout of its 7nm CPUs by six months relative to its previously-planned release date. Intel's press release also says that yields for its 7nm process are now twelve months behind the company's internal targets, meaning the company isn't currently on track to produce its 7nm process in an economically viable way. The company now says its 7nm process will not debut on the market until late 2022 or early 2023.

Here's the snippet from Intel's press release:



"The company's 7nm-based CPU product timing is shifting approximately six months relative to prior expectations. The primary driver is the yield of Intel's 7nm process, which based on recent data, is now trending approximately twelve months behind the company's internal target."

On the earnings call, Intel CEO Bob Swan said the company had identified a "defect mode" in its 7nm process and has invested in "contingency plans," which Swan later defined as using third-party foundries. The company will also use external third-party foundries as a contingency plan for its
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, the company's first graphics chips. Ponte Vecchio comes as a chiplet-based design, and Swan clarified that some of the production for the chiplets (tiles) will be outsourced to third parties. Intel also says that its first 10nm desktop CPUs, Alder Lake,
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.

The company clearly isn't pleased with its execution on the 7nm node, as Swan remarked that "I'm not happy, I'm not pleased, with our 7nm performance" at the end of the call.

It's unclear how Intel will reconcile a six month delay to its 7nm processors with a year delay to its internal 7nm yield projections, but it is possible the company had a built-in buffer in its roadmap. The delay reflects yet another setback as Intel still struggles to overcome the multi-year yield issues it has encountered with its 10nm process. Those delays have allowed its competitors, like AMD, to seize an opportunity to wrest the process node leadership position from Intel for the first time in the company's history. That's
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with a better node, not to mention the Amazon's new
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. The announcement also exacerbates the recent news that rock star chip architect Jim Keller, who was part of a team effort to revitalize the company's roadmaps,
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A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Skywatcher said:
Umm wow.

Looks like SMIC's N+2 will beat Intel, if the former comes out in late 2021 as planned.

And mind you, Intel has EUV since about 2017 with the delivery of the NXE3350B.
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hi Skywatcher

As in WOW, so INTEL had a hand in forcing TSMC to produce their 5nm chip in the US, about SMIC not bad at all, if all fall in place, By the year 2022 only 3 FAB is able to produce 7nm and below TSMC , SAMSUNG and SMIC.

I just hope that SMIC will received SMEE EUV in 2021, skip the 5nm and go straight to 3nm by 2024 same time the TSMC Arizona plant will be finish.
 
P

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
hi Skywatcher

As in WOW, so INTEL had a hand in forcing TSMC to produce their 5nm chip in the US, about SMIC not bad at all, if all fall in place, By the year 2022 only 3 FAB is able to produce 7nm and below TSMC , SAMSUNG and SMIC.

I just hope that SMIC will received SMEE EUV in 2021, skip the 5nm and go straight to 3nm by 2024 same time the TSMC Arizona plant will be finish.
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Just curios why intel would want to force TSMC to produce chips in the US. Wouldn’t intel want govt subsidies to support their own fab instead?
 
localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Petrolicious88 said:
Just curios why intel would want to force TSMC to produce chips in the US. Wouldn’t intel want govt subsidies to support their own fab instead?
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It's for espionage. US wants to send people to TSMC to spy for Intel.

Taiwan has resisted all these years, but we shall see if they give up their lifeline.

Taiwan is doing this to make US dependent on them so that US will protect them from China.

US wants to take TSMC IP and then offer up Taiwan to China on a silicon platter.
 
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ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
AndrewS said:
China still has a long way to go, if they want self-sufficiency.
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Hi AndrewS,

Yup they are still in a catch up phase, but from what I gather from you and other expert here in SDF. The 5year 2016-2020, answer the need for DUV and other tech process to produce 7nm chip. hopefully the next 5year 2020-2025 which correspond with President Xi meeting with China tech industries leader of state support will be more ambitious and finally address all the weakness.
 
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Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
localizer said:
It's for espionage. US wants to send people to TSMC to spy for Intel.

Taiwan has resisted all these years, but we shall see if they give up their lifeline.

Taiwan is doing this to make US dependent on them so that US will protect them from China.

US wants to take TSMC IP and then offer up Taiwan to China on a silicon platter.
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TSMC won’t bring their cutting edge fab to the US though. Any fab they set up outside of Taiwan will always be 1-2 generations behind.
But 2025 is a long way off. Let’s wait and see.
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
Petrolicious88 said:
TSMC won’t bring their cutting edge fab to the US though. Any fab they set up outside of Taiwan will always be 1-2 generations behind.
But 2025 is a long way off. Let’s wait and see.
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And we don't know how much of the $12 billion cost for TSMC Arizona is subsidies.

At this point, Intel should shop around and see if anyone is willing to license their 7nm tech to Intel (apparently Intel is going to have to contract out a lot of its <10nm stuff).
 
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Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
Petrolicious88 said:
TSMC won’t bring their cutting edge fab to the US though. Any fab they set up outside of Taiwan will always be 1-2 generations behind.
But 2025 is a long way off. Let’s wait and see.
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The right wing people are forcing TSMC to make the best chips for Apple in the US. Does TSMC dare not to do so?
 
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