News on China's scientific and technological development.

supercat said:

Some news about China's transportation system:


This sounds quite ambitious: increase new energy vehicle output to 2 million units a year in 2020, then increase output by 1 million units every year:

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I read the other day an article that China decided NOT to go "hybrid E vehicle", but only FULL E vehicle. The article was about recent Geely acquisition of shares in Daimler, then it mentions that Geely was "mistakenly" invested a lot in hybrid through Volvo, now it is trying to catch up with full E cars in the face of strong competition of BYD and others.

I am not surprised nor do I think Geely made a mistake (in hybrid), but quite interested in China's decision of go straight to embrace full E car. That seems that the strategy is go pure new energy (wind, solar, nuclear converted electricity). On another note, it seems the traditional European car makers (BBA and Volvo) were right in skipping hybrid (compared to Japan) and embrace full E cars. Of course, Tesla made that choice too, but I would not count it because it is purely focusing on the Luxury sector (rich boys' toy).

taxiya said:

I read the other day an article that China decided NOT to go "hybrid E vehicle", but only FULL E vehicle. The article was about recent Geely acquisition of shares in Daimler, then it mentions that Geely was "mistakenly" invested a lot in hybrid through Volvo, now it is trying to catch up with full E cars in the face of strong competition of BYD and others.

I am not surprised nor do I think Geely made a mistake (in hybrid), but quite interested in China's decision of go straight to embrace full E car. That seems that the strategy is go pure new energy (wind, solar, nuclear converted electricity). On another note, it seems the traditional European car makers (BBA and Volvo) were right in skipping hybrid (compared to Japan) and embrace full E cars. Of course, Tesla made that choice too, but I would not count it because it is purely focusing on the Luxury sector (rich boys' toy).

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There is strategic consideration in this decision as well if you think about it. China is trying to reduce dependence on petroleum, and a good way to do that would be going full electric.

siegecrossbow said:

There is strategic consideration in this decision as well if you think about it. China is trying to reduce dependence on petroleum, and a good way to do that would be going full electric.

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Indeed, it is strategic consideration. But what confuses me is that Japanese companies (mainly Toyota) are on "hybrid", while the government and companies also developed "hydrogen" economy which is "electricity to hydrogen to electricity", why not "directly and fully electricity"? It is especially confusing considering Japan's leading position in battery tech. I am not intended to derail the discussion to Japan, but rather using Japan as a mirror in order to understand China's thinking.

taxiya said:

Indeed, it is strategic consideration. But what confuses me is that Japanese companies (mainly Toyota) are on "hybrid", while the government and companies also developed "hydrogen" economy which is "electricity to hydrogen to electricity", why not "directly and fully electricity"? It is especially confusing considering Japan's leading position in battery tech. I am not intended to derail the discussion to Japan, but rather using Japan as a mirror in order to understand China's thinking.

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Simple Battery power is not for the long run due to it's inherent setbacks in technology.
No matter how you try batteries will lose it's capacity in midlife compared to other moving parts within a car resulting to high maintenance cost in replacing the batteries and also disposing the batteries which will cost the environment.
Another is base load in which if batteries becomes mainstream in transportation it will collapse the present electric grid due to everyone plugging into the grid. Electric power plants are expensive to build and takes time to construct. It also has a limited selection in fuel source with high resistance against coal and nuclear fuel.

By the way Toyota and Honda are the two major players in automobile fuel cell technology so the Japanese government will naturally lean towards Hydrogen based energy.

SamuraiBlue said:

Simple Battery power is not for the long run due to it's inherent setbacks in technology.
No matter how you try batteries will lose it's capacity in midlife compared to other moving parts within a car resulting to high maintenance cost in replacing the batteries and also disposing the batteries which will cost the environment.
Another is base load in which if batteries becomes mainstream in transportation it will collapse the present electric grid due to everyone plugging into the grid. Electric power plants are expensive to build and takes time to construct. It also has a limited selection in fuel source with high resistance against coal and nuclear fuel.

By the way Toyota and Honda are the two major players in automobile fuel cell technology so the Japanese government will naturally lean towards Hydrogen based energy.

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thats old thinking ...... you may need to google more matey

taxiya said:

I read the other day an article that China decided NOT to go "hybrid E vehicle", but only FULL E vehicle. The article was about recent Geely acquisition of shares in Daimler, then it mentions that Geely was "mistakenly" invested a lot in hybrid through Volvo, now it is trying to catch up with full E cars in the face of strong competition of BYD and others.

I am not surprised nor do I think Geely made a mistake (in hybrid), but quite interested in China's decision of go straight to embrace full E car. That seems that the strategy is go pure new energy (wind, solar, nuclear converted electricity). On another note, it seems the traditional European car makers (BBA and Volvo) were right in skipping hybrid (compared to Japan) and embrace full E cars. Of course, Tesla made that choice too, but I would not count it because it is purely focusing on the Luxury sector (rich boys' toy).

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Probably due to timing.

Honda and Toyota started with hybrids more than ten years ago. Then for an electric motor to fully power a car to cruising speeds on the battery technology then likely wasn't economical even if doable.
If you observe the driver's display in hybrid cars, you see that from standstill in city traffic, the electric motor kicks in first at low speed. Once speed increases and the accelerator pedal is kept down, then the petrol engine kicks in. This is a synergy of small electric motors's efficiency at low speed and petrol engine's power at cruising speeds.

Today more than ten years later, electric motor & battery technology has matured enough that electric TRUCKS are being built. So for players entering the car market going full-Electric would be a simpler design, less parts and using already a matured technology. Not to mention the algorithm in efficiently switching between electric motor to petrol engine used in hybrids would need substantial trial and error and time to master. That's technical wise.

Strategically and long term planning wise, China is the global leader investing in new green energy technology as well as building municipal level PV solar, thermal solar, wind & new nuclear power plant infrastructures. These technology not only reduces pollution of coal and gas power plants but will be an exportable technology in line with the Belt & Road Initiatives. The new power plants are an increase in the electrical SUPPLY side. Full-Electric vehicles would be the complementary DEMAND side. Note that China is also moving away from energy intensive industries(at the moment to reduce pollution), meaning the DEMAND side is slowly decreasing. Of course it's a balance with the closing of polluting power plants (reducing DEMAND). Nevertheless the more Electric cars there is, the easier to justify new green power plants being installed. The more green power plants installed, the better China masters green technology.

Hybrids still use petrol and is polluting. Full-Electric vehicles will be less polluting if the city's grid is powered by green technology, not to mention no pollution generated in the city centre.

Lastly going into hybrids mean entering a pretty mature market (facing strong competition head-on). But going straight into economically viable full-E cars means automatically being the global leader once you are up and running. Similar to how China leap-frogged credit cards straight into mobile payments.

now I read
China to publish guideline on AI development: minister
Xinhua| 2018-03-10 12:55:00

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China will soon publish a guideline and detailed regulations on artificial intelligence (AI) development to make breakthroughs in critical technologies in this industry, Minister of Science and Technology Wan Gang said Saturday.

China is speeding up the research of key technologies for the new generation of AI, Wan told a press conference on the sidelines of the annual session of the National People's Congress.

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now I read
Radio telescope array to build surrounding FAST for resolution enhancement
Xinhua| 2018-03-10 13:50:11

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Chinese scientists are considering setting up smaller radio telescopes surrounding FAST to increase array resolution, authorities said.

According to the FAST observation station with the National Astronomical Observatories, two to 10 radio telescopes measuring 30 meters in diameter may be set up around FAST, the world's largest single-dish radio telescope.

The resolution of the array will be around 100 times greater than currently.

FAST will have a more advanced radio receiver as early as end of April.

Located in a natural, deep round karst depression in Guizhou, southwest China, FAST, or Five-hundred-meter Aperture Spherical Radio Telescope, is believed to be the world's most sensitive radio telescope.

Its tasks include observation of pulsars, exploration of interstellar molecules and monitoring interstellar communication signals.

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now I read
AI-driven technology reshaping city traffic in China
Xinhua| 2018-03-10 18:31:04

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An ambulance in Hangzhou, an eastern Chinese city, avoids gridlock and all red lights switch to green as it approaches.

"The travel time was cut to half," said Sun Shixiang, of Hangzhou's public security bureau, while pointing to a big screen.

The progress is attributed to Alibaba's "City Brain", an AI platform on Alibaba's cloud infrastructure. It is a support to cities in digital transformation.

Around half of the world's population lives in urban areas. Traffic congestion goes along with urbanization.

In Hangzhou, the "City Brain" pulls in traffic and weather data and analyzes real-time traffic flow, adjusting traffic lights accordingly.

Over the past year, the technology has controlled traffic lights in 128 intersections in Hangzhou. The average speed of cars on these roads has increased by 15.3 percent, and travel time on bridges similarly reduced.

In addition to transport, the technology is expected to provide solutions for the city's energy and water supplies.

"City Brain" is active in cities such as Hangzhou, Suzhou and Quzhou. Outside China, Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia will soon adopt the system.

"Artificial intelligence will become important for all cities, helping them achieve sustainable development," said Wang Jian, Alibaba's technical committee chair.

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According to the head of 6th institute of CASC, the R&D work of engineering prototype of 500t class LOX/Kerosene engine will be concluded within 2018. Not sure if the prototype engine could be built in 2018, or just the design work. Anyway, it is a big step.