News on China's scientific and technological development.

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
As a further extension of the news.

Either way, let's take a couple of examples:
1. A north-south UHSR line that runs the Beijing-Shijiazhuang-Zhengzhou-Wuhan-Changsha-Guangzhou route. Total length around 1950 kilometers.
View attachment 105728
2. An east-west UHSR line that runs the Shanghai-Nanjing-Wuhan-Changsha-Chongqing-Chengdu route. Total length around 1900 kilometers.
View attachment 105729

Assuming that the UHSRs run at a maximum commerical speed of around 900 kilometers (since no trains run at its maximum possible speed during commerical operations). That means both the direct Beijing-Guangzhou route and the direct Shanghai-Chengdu route would take around 2.5-3 hours, counting in the factor that the UHSR has to slow down when rounding curves, plus the acceleration and decceleration time spend at the start and end of the journey.

From this, there are major caveats that the Chinese planners would have to consider:
1. Speed of travel - If the UHSR has to travel close to/at its maximum commercial speed for as long as possible, how many stops at in-between cities could the UHSR afford, considering the extra time penalties from acceleration from and decceleration to stations?
2. Time of travel - If the UHSR has to travel the entire route in the shortest amount of time possible, how many stops at in-between cities has to be excluded from the route in order to remove the extra time penalties from stopping at stations in-between?
3. Ridership - If the UHSR is to receive as many ridership as possible from cities in-between along the entire route, how much speed and time can it afford to sacrifice - And hence, how much wasting of energy, efficiency and cost would this incur?

On the other hand, if the mass adoption of hyperloop technology in intercity passenger transportation becomes a reality, how would this affect the competition between ultra-high speed rail lines and airline companies in the coming future?

Say, the UHSR runs at a top speed of 900 kilometers per hour (since trains don't run at top speed during commercial services). Most commerical jetliners today fly at around Mach 0.78, or around 960 kilometers per hour, but that is only while cruising. Commerical jetliners don't fly at that speed throughout the entire flight.

As per mentioned above, the time taken for both UHSRs to travel the entire routes without stopping would be around 2.5-3 hours. For comparison, a direct Beijing-Guangzhou flight takes around 3 hours and 20 minutes, while a direct Shanghai-Chengdu flight takes around 3 hours and 30 minutes.

When the UHSR is up and running, the competition between rail companies and airline companies in China is going to become even fiercer. This is because more people are going for the UHSR - All thanks to the time spent between origins/destinations and train stations, and time spent in train stations for boarding and disembarking are going to be shorter than that for airports, not counting the ease of accessibility as there is no need for immigration and security check procedures. The lower rates of on-time arrivals of Chinese airlines thanks to large portions of the Chinese airspace being off-limits to commercial planes for use by the PLA certainly doesn't help either.

Perhaps we could be reaching the limits of speed of travel for intercity routes that are of short to medium distances. Perhaps 600-700 kilometers per hour would be a hard cap onto how fast a land transportation vehicle could go for these routes without loosing too much on efficiency, energy wastage and cost incured. I'm thinking that hyperloop technology would only be useful for long and ultra-long distance routes, such as the Beijing-Kunming-Bangkok-Singapore route or the Shanghai-Chengdu-Urumqi-Astana route.
Only one thing: branding it with Hyperloop is bad, it is a total failure because vacuum trains do not actually provide any benefit over simply pumping more energy into propulsion. Maglev train is indeed a better new tech, though it is still questionable as to whether the speed is worth it as the propulsive energy required and drag forces both scales as v^2.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Only one thing: branding it with Hyperloop is bad, it is a total failure because vacuum trains do not actually provide any benefit over simply pumping more energy into propulsion. Maglev train is indeed a better new tech, though it is still questionable as to whether the speed is worth it as the propulsive energy required and drag forces both scales as v^2.
Hmm. Has anyone actually done the math on how much energy it takes to maintain the vacuum vs fighting air resistance? I feel like you don’t need to go with a full vacuum either. Partial ought to be fine to reduce resistance.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Hmm. Has anyone actually done the math on how much energy it takes to maintain the vacuum vs fighting air resistance? I feel like you don’t need to go with a full vacuum either. Partial ought to be fine to reduce resistance.
I indeed did at one point. Here's the calculations of hyperloop compression vs additional propulsion energy and the breakeven speed, hope I did not make too many mistakes:

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. Density is proportional to pressure (PV=nRT where n is number density which can be transformed to mass density). Velocity is in m/s.

Work can be seen as equivalent to energy and work is the path integral along the path that you exert the force: W = int[F*ds]. For simplicity let's call it a straight line so W1 = Fd*x where x is the distance and Fd is the drag force. This describes energy required to overcome the drag force.

Pulling vacuum is basically a compression process.
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Skip to "isothermal compression" work integral for the conclusion.

W2 = -P1*V*ln(P2/P1). V is just x * A (length * cross section area). Let's call P1 as 1000 mbar, P2 as 1 mbar (1 bar = 1 atm). That is the hyperloop design spec. W = 6907 mbar*V = 6907mbar*A*x

At what speed v for when work from compression balances out work to overcome the drag force? Only when W1 = W2. So we find the speed at which it is no longer worthwhile to increase propulsion force, but rather to pump down to hyperloop specification.

Fd*x = 6907mbar*A*x, Fd = 6907mbar*A.

Fd = 0.5 p * c * A * v^2 = 6907 mbar*A. A cancel on both sides.

0.5 p * c * v^2 = 6907 mbar.
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(note that this is a conservative half-streamline shape estimate).

p is mass density. Let's convert to atm to get round numbers, 1 mbar = 0.001 atm, 6907 mbar = 6.9 atm.

PV = nRT. p = n (molar density) * m (molar mass) / V.

Rearrange: PV*m = n*m*RT, P*m = (n*m/V) * RT = p*RT, p = P*m/RT.

P = 1 mbar = 0.001 atm, m = 0.028 kg/mol, R = 8.21E-5 m3*atm/(K*mol)

p = 0.001*0.028/(300*8.21*10^-5) = 0.00114 kg/m3.

Repeat to convert 6.9 atm to equivalent mass density: 7.8 kg/m3.

0.5 * 0.1* 0.00114 kg/m3 * v^2 = 7.8 kg/m3.

v = 370 m/s.
 
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is a very rough calculation.

I interpret this as the velocity at which the energy required to do compression work to reduce the track tube pressure down to 1 mbar is equal to the energy required to overcome drag at atmospheric pressure 1000 mbar. So this is solely an energy balance situation.

Some practical things that are not considered: leaks at pipe edges and at feedthroughs, leaks due to accidents, outgassing from materials, expense of airtight seals on both tracks and trainsets, expense of on-board oxygen generation on trainsets, vulnerability to accidents, massive expense of stations which will essentially need to be giant load-lock chambers, etc.
 

Strangelove

Colonel
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Chinese researchers build AI system for major ocean current prediction

Chinese researchers have built an AI inference and prediction system for the ITF, which can make valid ocean current predictions seven months in advance. /CFP


Chinese researchers have built an AI inference and prediction system for the ITF, which can make valid ocean current predictions seven months in advance. /CFP

Chinese researchers have built an artificial intelligence (AI) inference and prediction system for the Indonesian Throughflow (ITF), which can make valid ocean current predictions seven months in advance.

The ITF serves as a main branch of the global heat/salt conveyor belt by transferring the upper ocean waters from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean through the Indonesian seas. Researchers had previously lacked ideal ways to predict the ITF due to the model biases in the current numerical simulation systems.

In this new study, Chinese researchers from the Institute of Oceanology, Chinese Academy of Sciences and Nanjing University of Information Science and Technology used satellite data and AI models based on deep learning to construct the inference and prediction system for the ITF.

The researchers used sea surface heights between the Indian and Pacific Ocean basins to design their AI model and trained the model with oceanic data sets.

They then input satellite data from 1993 to 2021 into the system to reproduce the ITF during this period. The results were highly consistent with internationally acknowledged ITF field observation data. Meanwhile, the AI system can also make a valid prediction seven months in advance.

The researchers have reported the system in the journal Frontiers in Marine Science. They said the system could provide a new tool for studying ocean circulation and climate change in the Indo-Pacific Ocean and ease the pressure of real-time oceanographic observation.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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China delivering electric powered light rail to Lagos, Nigeria.

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China also got the world's first hydrogen powered train. I'm not convinced of the future of such an invention, but looks like they are exploring everything.
 

supercat

Major
China is now at the cutting edge of automotive technology and will build some of the safest cars in the world with V2X.

Why China is poised to manufacture the world's safest cars​

Chinese automakers have already been launching vehicles with built-in V2X, which will invariably help them excel in future EuroNCAP tests.
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An introduction to V2X:
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Like 5G, it seems that the U.S. has problems using this new technology.
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Hitomi

Junior Member
Registered Member
China is now at the cutting edge of automotive technology and will build some of the safest cars in the world with V2X.

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An introduction to V2X:
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Like 5G, it seems that the U.S. has problems using this new technology.
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I mean the US public cries about anything remotely electronic sending their data to the government, this will surely encounter resistance in adoption.
 
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