News on China's scientific and technological development.

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
Honestly China is still under utilising its capable population. This is pretty evident when comparing all the various outputs in the core technologies domains as a function of population size. China's nominal output though is tremendous in part due to that population size. It has the means, resources, and talent pool to actually expend something meaningful on moonshot projects.
this is true.

but China's journey just begun. the true capabilities will unleash by the end of this decade when all efforts become fruitful.

record jump in basic spending. The total is nearly 24 per cent higher than a year earlier

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by 2025, China will achieve scientific literacy among 15 percent of total population and by 2030 it will reach 30 percent. that's huge considering China have 1.4 billion people.

China aims to achieve scientific literacy among at least 15% of its population by 2025.jpg
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
This Optimus Prime robot was the coolest thing at CES 2023.

Video below

this thing transformed back-and-forth from truck to robotic form. But it also walked forwards, backwards, sideways, did push-ups, sit-ups, and karate stances. If it fell over, it was able to automatically get itself back up on its feet. It could even stand on one leg in order to kick!

mashable.com/video/robosen-optimus-prime-robot-ces-2023
 

Strangelove

Colonel
Registered Member
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China makes breakthrough to mimic 'chemical language' of human brain


A: An illustrated image of neuron models. B: An illustrated image of polyelectrolyte-confined fluidic memristor (PFM). /CAS



A: An illustrated image of neuron models. B: An illustrated image of polyelectrolyte-confined fluidic memristor (PFM). /CAS

Reproducing ion channel-based neural functions with artificial fluidic systems has long been a goal for both neuromorphic computing and biomedical applications.

Chinese scientists have now made a breakthrough by developing a polyelectrolyte-confined fluidic memristor (PFM), which is expected to promote the reading and interaction of "chemical language" of the human brain, and provide new ideas to develop neurointelligent sensing, brain-like intelligent devices and neurosensory prosthetics.

The study, conducted by scientists from Beijing National Laboratory for Molecular Sciences, Key Laboratory of Analytical Chemistry for Living Biosystems, Institute of Chemistry, Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), was published in the international journal Science on January 12, 2023.

A screenshot of the study published in Science on January 12, 2023.



A screenshot of the study published in Science on January 12, 2023.

In the study, neuromorphic functions were successfully accomplished with a PFM, in which confined polyelectrolyte-ion interactions contributed to hysteretic ion transport, resulting in ion memory effects.

Various electric pulse patterns were also emulated by the PFM with ultralow energy consumption. The fluidic property of the PFM enabled the mimicking of chemical-regulated electric pulses, according to the study.

More importantly, chemical-electric signal transduction was implemented with a single PFM. With its structural similarity to ion channels, a PFM is versatile and easily interfaces with biological systems, paving a way to building neuromorphic devices with advanced functions by introducing rich chemical designs, according to the study.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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I love how they have to preface that China's motivations are different from the West. When they want to ban users on internet social media platforms that don't perpetuate their "political" values, they are no different from China. Remember Twitter banned that US athlete at the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics because he was countering the mainstream Western media's narrative of what it was like at the Olympic Village.

You don't think the Falun Gong will engage in deepfakes to smear China and the West will to the least say nothing all the way to helping perpetuate those lies? Look at how the media will report those lies like with Chinese black market organ transplants started by Harry Wu for the US news media by setting up a fake sting operation for them. The whole things was a lie exposed about it in court and you never saw him on TV again afterwards but they still lie about a black market for organs.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
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I love how they have to preface that China's motivations are different from the West. When they want to ban users on internet social media platforms that don't perpetuate their "political" values, they are no different from China. Remember Twitter banned that US athlete at the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics because he was countering the mainstream Western media's narrative of what it was like at the Olympic Village.

You don't think the Falun Gong will engage in deepfakes to smear China and the West will to the least say nothing all the way to helping perpetuate those lies? Look at how the media will report those lies like with Chinese black market organ transplants started by Harry Wu for the US news media by setting up a fake sting operation for them. The whole things was a lie exposed about it in court and you never saw him on TV again afterwards but they still lie about a black market for organs.
It's great! Because China enacted regulations like these, they'll oppose them and deepfakes will run rampant in their cultural spheres.
 

Fedupwithlies

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not compared to ULA, NASA and other of the entrenched space agencies with tens of billions in funding and decades of experience. Spacex only got their so big after the success with the falcon 9. Before that, they were a tiny company, not the giant you see today.

[cut]

Even better to start early. Also not an excuse. I would like to again bring up the phage therapy example, because I work in an healthcare setting and antibiotic resistant bacteria are already a massive issue that's killing patients, extending hospital stays and costs, and is getting worse and worse every year. A fast spreading bacteria that completely resistant to all antibiotics will basically fuck the healthcare system of any country even worse than covid did, so it's a big deal. A number of western companies have been looking into phage therapy in the past few years.

I've been following this thread for a little while and while I 100% agree that "China" needs to fund obscure and moonshot projects, I disagree with the (what I think I've been reading, although correct me if I'm wrong) implication that its "small companies" getting funding from, where? the private sector? "Western companies"?

Even with your example, Boston Dynamics. Mostly funded by the US military, in the early days. If you're truly in the healthcare setting you'd know the sheer ridiculous amount of money the US NIH has to fund research. Honestly it feels like everything is funded off NIH. Or the NSC

Did you know about IARPA? (
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) (
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)
If you take a look at their projects, they "fund" big companies on the weirdest things. (Budget is classified, btw)
Not even talking about DARPA, the agency that invented the internet.

China's DARPA according some quick googling started in 1982, and then again in 2016. So, very, very recent. (IARPA started in 2006, DARPA in 1958)

The "moonshot" shit you're talking about is government research. It may not be explicitly in a government building but the money is from the government.

Another common thread is just how wasteful that money is. Again, if you're truly in the healthcare setting you'd know the sheer amount of money that gets wasted on the most ridiculous things. Lets not even talk about military R&D waste. China only recently had that sort of money to waste. (China's equivalent to the NSF (founded 1950) is the NSFC (founded 1986). NSF's budget is roughly 2x bigger than China's today. I don't know how big the NSF's budget was back in 1986 compared to the NSFC. But I bet it was a lot larger than just 2x. China is improving, but this shit takes money. Lots of money.) Don't even want to look at NIH stats.
Also NSFC publishes a guide to its programs every year. Very cool!
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Anyways, summary of why I'm typing all this out:
1) Agree, the Chinese government should fund more moonshot projects.
2) Disagree with you, I believe the Chinese government is starting to do so.
3) Personal opinion: You won't recognize whether "China" is funding these moonshot projects or not.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not compared to ULA, NASA and other of the entrenched space agencies with tens of billions in funding and decades of experience. Spacex only got their so big after the success with the falcon 9. Before that, they were a tiny company, not the giant you see today.

RNA vaccines were being developed by a tiny team of researchers for decades before covid bought them into the limelight and Pfizer stepped in helped to mass produce the vaccines.

It is you who have no idea what you're talking about. Pfizer didn't do shit to develop RNA vaccines, they just stepped in to help biontech mass produce it, because biontech was a tiny little company. ASML isn't small but they did start developing EUV back in 1999, long before EUV was even needed, back when they were a lot smaller and when they still had a very lucrative DUV business. Spacex was tiny and everyone was expecting them to fail back when they were developing the falcon 9.

Well, humanoid robotic aren't exactly fully developed yet. When the tech matures enough for me to buy one to do the house chores, you can bet that BD is going to be heavily involved. Again, the entire point is that there doesn't need to be a valid market or near term market for them to develop projects. With that mindset, ASML wouldn't have started development of EUV until 2015, when transitor size was finally getting small enough to actually need EUV. This mindset is exactly the kind that fucks over chinese researchers. There's zero foresight here. I'll watch as critical technology after technology fails to receive any funding or development right until it goes mainstream and China scrambles to catch up as always.

One example is phage therapy. It's basically rendered useless since WWII because antibiotics are way better. But now that antibiotic resistant bacteria or superbugs are becoming a major issue, various western companies are starting to pick up the technology for use. It's still a niche use, since superbugs hasn't completely taken over, but as the problem gets worse and worse, phage therapy becomes more and more useful until the companies that specialize in it become worth their weight in gold, oh and they get to save their healthcare system of the world. Might not happen this decade, but will happen eventually. Phage therapy isn't expensive or a hard field to develop, it was developed in the 1940s and little progress has been made since then, as the world more or less dropped it. A small team/company with little funding can do wonders here with advances with modern techniques used in gene sequencing.

But nope, China isn't doing much in that area, and probably won't do much until their healthcare system is overloaded with superbugs. Again, the analogy here is that China just focuses on a mature field, in response to superbugs, they will go develop new antibiotics, which does help but will just push the problem back another handful of years. They can't completely flip the table and completely change the game.

How is bringing up valid points and a critical flaw in China's research strategy trolling? This is the kind of victim mindset and refusal to acknowledge flaws that still holding China back.


Even better to start early. Also not an excuse. I would like to again bring up the phage therapy example, because I work in an healthcare setting and antibiotic resistant bacteria are already a massive issue that's killing patients, extending hospital stays and costs, and is getting worse and worse every year. A fast spreading bacteria that completely resistant to all antibiotics will basically fuck the healthcare system of any country even worse than covid did, so it's a big deal. A number of western companies have been looking into phage therapy in the past few years.

This is 1940s technology here, you don't need billions and a level 4 biosecurity lab to work with phages, with the lack of development since WWII, even a small team with even smaller funding can make great strides. So why the lack of development in China? Despite antibiotic resistant bacteria already being a major issue? Do they need it to become mainstream? For western companies to make it a multi-billion dollar industry with good profit margins before they jump into the field? Or are they going to wait for antibiotic resistant bacteria to basically fuck their healthcare system to the ground before doing anything?
Jesus Christ the amount of hubris and know-it-all with your post is fucking staggering. Why is China behind x, y, z, when the actual reality is the country has been modernizing and even caught up to leading western countries, and sometimes surpass them in some critical areas. But the way you write your opinion you make it sound like China is stuck in the 1970 level of backwardness or something.

Does the country needs to work on many critical areas most definitely but your sanctimonious prescription reads like a political theater a.k.a. Political posturing which equals to saying without directly saying that China ought to liberalize itself further a.k.a be like America not just in some areas but in all areas otherwise it'll never get ahead and compete with many core super duper tech you were babbling on about.

I am sorry for saying this but you're quite sneaky with your political attack because it's cleverly hidden beneath the veneer of meandering nonsense.
 

luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
Honestly China is still under utilising its capable population. This is pretty evident when comparing all the various outputs in the core technologies domains as a function of population size. China's nominal output though is tremendous in part due to that population size. It has the means, resources, and talent pool to actually expend something meaningful on moonshot projects.
this is true.

but China's journey just begun. the true capabilities will unleash by the end of this decade when all efforts become fruitful.

record jump in basic spending. The total is nearly 24 per cent higher than a year earlier

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by 2025, China will achieve scientific literacy among 15 percent of total population and by 2030 it will reach 30 percent. that's huge considering China have 1.4 billion people.

View attachment 105064
With that many people in STEM and higher ed, the pace of scientific advancement then will be frankly incredible. It'll be the Scientific Revolution 2.0. We might see paradigm shift technologies like the Internet arriving every few years. I can't imagine how human society will be able to adapt to that pace of change. Kids might grow up accepting that the world and the ideas they learned in science class will be completely different by the time they are adults.
 
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